# Leno/Conan Shakeup at NBC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073 "2010-01-07T21:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![The\_Shroud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@The\_Shroud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Shroud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/721 "2010-01-23T06:19:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Leno had a [1.4 rating](http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman2/publish/Dayparts_update_51/With_Jay_Leno_it_s_all_in_the_numbers.asp) with the 18-49 prime demographic in 2008. Before the rise in ratings as the result of all this attention Conan was getting … [1.0](http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/04/conan-beats-dave-with-18-49-viewers-in-4th-quarter/37565). > > I’m not an AARP member, though I’m eligible. (You’re eligible as soon as you move out of the 18-49 demographic, interestingly.) But we aren’t the problem. It’s all you Conan fanatics who didn’t bother to watch his show. You have to blame yourselves. Really. You do. Us _real_ fanatics saw every episode (about half on Hulu, but surely NBC was counting that as well, right?). Your point about ratings is valid, but I think it’s safe to say that without Pope Leno (or President Grover Leno?) nipping at his heels, Conan would have been given more of a chance, and perhaps better ratings due to lead-in. But I imagine that’s already been hashed out in this long thread. I should probably stop coming back to this thread; I’m actually pretty upset about this (within reason; as a late night fanatic this is a real drag). And there seem to be a lot of gloaters and naysayers in here. Maybe we just need two threads; an appreciation thread and a “serves the Ginger freak right” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/722 "2010-01-23T06:20:11Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Sorry, Conan fans. I’m not picking on you. I don’t take it personally. I didn’t watch his Tonight Show earlier and I don’t feel bad about it - when he’s got it working, I think he’s really funny, but I’m a longtime Daily Show/Colbert viewer. But I do think Conan’s been pretty good about all of this, and his comments about NBC confirmed that. (I do plan to follow his next show.) And I don’t think Leno is the scum of the earth either. I’m not going to be applauding him but I think he was put into a bad position as well. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/723 "2010-01-23T06:24:43Z")
Nothing became Conan more during his stint at the Tonight show than his leaving of it. That was a fine last speech. I hope he finds a suitable home for his talents (I think Fox would give him more creative leeway than the other networks.) Bye Conan. You weren’t my favorite talk show host (that would be Ferguson) but as the writer of the immortal Marge vs The Monorail you’ll always have a special place in my heart. And I pray to all the gods in all the pantheons whatever that Leno crashes and burns. Smarmy creep that he is. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/724 "2010-01-23T06:34:02Z")
> [@The\_Shroud](#): > > Maybe we just need two threads; an appreciation thread and a “serves the Ginger freak right” thread. Maybe the fans should have a thread where they don’t have to meet reality. But I have nothing against Conan. I used to like him, then he grew repetitive and I moved on. I tried watching the new show and it didn’t work for me. Neither did Leno’s. Conan lost half of Leno’s audience, most of it before Leno was around to be blamed. That’s bad business. $200,000,000 of bad business. You can’t predict what may have happened in the future. NBC had to make a business decision now. I just get tired of the people not paying attention to this reality. I get tired of people blaming Leno. I find it hypocritical to blame boomers when Conan drove his target demographics so low that they dropped lower than Leno. That’s unfortunate reality that all the screaming won’t change, even if it makes you all feel better. What you really should be screaming about is that [Better Off Ted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=544506) is getting canceled and unlike both other shows, it’s really brilliant and should appeal to both groups and you’re not watching at all. If you’re going to complain about anything, turn your energies to that. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/725 "2010-01-23T06:35:03Z")
The way Ferguson is getting dickrode in this thread, I’m gonna go ahead and give him a shot. You cats better be right about him. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/726 "2010-01-23T06:38:51Z")
I haven’t read any of the thread. But I really, really enjoyed the last 10 minutes of the last show, especially the part about cynicism. That was a nice send-off. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/727 "2010-01-23T06:52:17Z")
> [@Piker](#): > > I love the standards we’re holding people to nowadays. > > The principle-less, talent-less hack is not to blame! What _other option_ does he have but ruin the lives and dreams of another show’s cast and crew when the opportunity was offered to him . . . I mean, he’s only a _near-billionaire_! Nope, no blame here! > > And don’t come back to me and say the ratings speak for themselves. If, back in the early nineties, Leno was held to the same standards Conan was held to here, the only thing we would remember about him would be the Doritos commercials. I’m not sure I understand your comment. I personally didn’t like Leno sticking around, but the money NBC threw his way was obscene. He’s not responsible for ruining the hopes and dreams of another show’s cast and crew. Please. I think you are being melodramatic. And this is not something I haven’t seen in my own professional life. Just one example. A woman my company hired moved her entire family across the country, and five months later she was let go. Not because of performance, but because her division was eliminated. Now THAT sucked. She didn’t get a buy-out, or a golden parachute. She was hung out to dry. Leno, if I remember correctly, struggled for the first few months, and when the buzz of Letterman wore off, his ratings continued to rise until he regularly beat Letterman. If he didn’t, I suspect he would have been gone. I don’t remember the specifics, but I don’t think it took him 7 months to catch Letterman. Even if I’m wrong on the timeline, the dynamics were different then. NBC was willing to ride Leno longer just because they didn’t want to look like they made a mistake by giving the Tonight Show to Leno and not to Letterman. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/728 "2010-01-23T07:00:03Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So I’m confused: Do you like class acts like Carson that, when they’re done, they walk away and never pop up again? Or do you like Leno who, when he was done, did NOT walk away and eventually popped up again and again? > > Well, I guess the bottom line is we’re gonna have a class-less act now hosting the Tonight Show once the Olympics are over. IMO, Leno should have said good-bye, just like Carson did. He made his money, he turned over the keys to the Tonight Show kingdom to Conan, and that should have been that. I was disappointed he stuck around. Quite frankly, if Carson did what Leno did, I’m guessing Carson would have replaced Leno in a time frame much less than 7 months. Carson, to me anyway, was the gold standard for the 11:30-12:30 time slot. Letterman, Leno, et. al. don’t even come close. I was sorry to see him retire. So, to (hopefully) clear up any confusion, Carson did it right. I didn’t necessarily want him to fall off the face of the earth like he did, but I did like the fact that he left the Tonight Show forever. He knew how to retire and stay retired. (I’m looking at YOU, Brett Favre!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/729 "2010-01-23T07:53:22Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I iterated this position way upthread before the deal was struck, but now that it’s official I want to repeat myself. Conan played that sympathy card about the crew heavily on the show, and now that he’s getting a $45 million payday let’s see how much of it he shares with them and their poor, relocated families. > > I’m just dying to find out. > [@Marley23](#): > > According to all the reports from the other day, he’s getting $33 million and $12 million is going to the staff and crew. $12 millon is what Conan and his lawyers were able to negotiate from NBC. According to his manager, though, Conan will personally supplement that. [http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/21/news/Conan\_OBrien\_NBC\_severance\_deal/index.htm?hpt=T2](http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/21/news/Conan_OBrien_NBC_severance_deal/index.htm?hpt=T2) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/730 "2010-01-23T12:36:04Z")
Is Conan’s farewell online somewhere? I didn’t see it on youtube… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/731 "2010-01-23T12:37:37Z")
Never mind, found it [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxPdu5bUQMA). ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/732 "2010-01-23T14:42:25Z")
Great ending song. And, believe it or not, that was the first time I ever heard THAT song. After I confirmed that, that was indeed the song, I looked at the lyrics. I doubt there was a better song for that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/733 "2010-01-23T15:18:25Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I’m not sure I understand your comment. I personally didn’t like Leno sticking around, but the money NBC threw his way was obscene. He’s not responsible for ruining the hopes and dreams of another show’s cast and crew. I don’t understand . . . why not? Why, when something is offered to Jay Leno, is he suddenly obligated to take it? Does he have no say in the matter? That’s ridiculous. It’s not like he’s hurting for cash, he’s probably one of the country’s richest entertainers. > [@](#): > > And this is not something I haven’t seen in my own professional life. Just one example. A woman my company hired moved her entire family across the country, and five months later she was let go. Not because of performance, but because her division was eliminated. Now THAT sucked. She didn’t get a buy-out, or a golden parachute. She was hung out to dry. Of course? I agree that sucks? I thought we were here talking about the Tonight Show? > [@](#): > > Leno, if I remember correctly, struggled for the first few months, and when the buzz of Letterman wore off, his ratings continued to rise until he regularly beat Letterman. If he didn’t, I suspect he would have been gone. I don’t remember the specifics, but I don’t think it took him 7 months to catch Letterman. Even if I’m wrong on the timeline, the dynamics were different then. Yeah, you are, by a mile. It’s regularly accepted that Leno didn’t turn the ratings ship around until the Summer 1995 appearance by Hugh Grant, which is around the time he actually started beating Letterman. For those scoring at home, that’s almost three years into his tenure as the Tonight Show host. And he didn’t have to deal with Johnny Carson hanging around in the lobby, taking the best guests and giving him a crappy lead-in audience. > [@](#): > > NBC was willing to ride Leno longer just because they didn’t want to look like they made a mistake by giving the Tonight Show to Leno and not to Letterman. And why weren’t “NBC willing to ride Conan longer just because they didn’t want to look like they made a mistake by giving the Tonight Show to Conan and not to Leno”? Because Leno stuck around, made him know he was still willing to come back. Class act. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/734 "2010-01-23T16:30:32Z")
TV is much different now than it was in 92. If Leno was new to Tonight now he would not get years to get his ratings up. He might only get 6 months like Conan. I don’t understand how someone accepting a very good job is a horrible thing - can anyone explain that to me? Just because someone is 59 and has a lot of money they should retire? If that’s the case many people in Hollywood should retire and let other people do their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/735 "2010-01-23T16:42:27Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > TV is much different now than it was in 92. If Leno was new to Tonight now he would not get years to get his ratings up. He might only get 6 months like Conan. > > I don’t understand how someone accepting a very good job is a horrible thing - can anyone explain that to me? Just because someone is 59 and has a lot of money they should retire? If that’s the case many people in Hollywood should retire and let other people do their jobs. I don’t think it was about Conan’s ratings. I think it was Leno’s failure that made NBC rethink the move. The Tonight show makes a lot of money. They can afford to let a guy grow an audience. But Leno’s spot required quicker success. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/736 "2010-01-23T16:43:14Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > TV is much different now than it was in 92. If Leno was new to Tonight now he would not get years to get his ratings up. He might only get 6 months like Conan. > > I don’t understand how someone accepting a very good job is a horrible thing - can anyone explain that to me? Just because someone is 59 and has a lot of money they should retire? If that’s the case many people in Hollywood should retire and let other people do their jobs. I don’t think TV is that much different. The difference is that the man who agreed to leave…didn’t. Basically, I think most people that are upset at Jay think he should have said, “Well, my 10 PM show didn’t take, so I guess I should go. It’s not fair to Conan to jump back on the show just because he’s having a hard time in the early ratings. If it were me, I’d want a chance to make it on my own without the previous guy looming, so I’ll give it to him and leave.” Then, he could have gone to another network or done comedy full time. I like Jay, but it just seems like he should have left. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/737 "2010-01-23T16:47:32Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > TV is much different now than it was in 92. If Leno was new to Tonight now he would not get years to get his ratings up. He might only get 6 months like Conan. > > I don’t understand how someone accepting a very good job is a horrible thing - can anyone explain that to me? Just because someone is 59 and has a lot of money they should retire? If that’s the case many people in Hollywood should retire and let other people do their jobs. I don’t think it’s quite that simple. If you apply this scenario to the real world it’d be terrible. I get hired on for a new job promotion because my predecessor moved on to a new job. It turns out my predecessor isn’t very good at his new job, so they essentially move him back to his old job (Now supposedly mine), and move me back to MY old job, except I keep the same title. I’m sorry, but that sucks balls all the way around.. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/738 "2010-01-23T16:50:07Z")
Leno did not want to go to 10 PM, he thought it would not work. He was very happy at 11:35 and had high ratings. This all started when he was forced out of 11:35 by NBC. TV is not the real world, average guys don’t get $32 million for 7 months work. Average guys also don’t have a chance to go to another job paying millions. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/739 "2010-01-23T17:03:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is Conan’s farewell online somewhere? I didn’t see it on youtube… And that’s why he got canceled. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073/740 "2010-01-23T17:25:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t think TV is that much different. The difference is that the man who agreed to leave…didn’t. > > Basically, I think most people that are upset at Jay think he should have said, “Well, my 10 PM show didn’t take, so I guess I should go. It’s not fair to Conan to jump back on the show just because he’s having a hard time in the early ratings. If it were me, I’d want a chance to make it on my own without the previous guy looming, so I’ll give it to him and leave.” > > Then, he could have gone to another network or done comedy full time. I like Jay, but it just seems like he should have left. That’s it, plus the fact that when he talked about going back to the Tonight Show on his 10:00 show, he kept making “Those guys at NBC” comments, which I think is complete BS. Jay’s not getting screwed by being sent back to the TOnight Show, but Conan et al are getting screwed. There are probably a dozen different options that NBC and Jay could have gone with, but this is what they’re doing and Jay’s trying to act as if he’s got nothing to do with it or any say in it. It would be that easy for him to say “No thanks, Conan has it now.” But he didn’t and he blamed the “Suits” for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leno-conan-shakeup-at-nbc/524073.md?page=38)