Some commentators (Tim Goodman and Bill Simmons) are saying that part of the problem is that Conan did change his style, to try to please the less edgy Tonight Show audience.
It was expected he would tone down his stuff, NBC did not want the same stuff at 11:35 from him. Not likely he would have a bear masturbating at 11:35.
The thruth is that Jay’s Tonight Show was getting hammered by Letterman until Hugh Grant showed up and apologized.
And Iwouldn’t be too critical of Seinfeld. Remember that folks like Seinfeld and Leno all were on the comedy tour circuit together in the eighties, they are all friends from when they were working their asses off at a different comedy club each weekend. You can’t blame the guy for siding with Jay.
Not that I really liked him before…but I have lost all respect for Jimmy Kimmel.
Having just watched his “10 at 10” reminded me how stupid famous people can be, and how they think they’re right and will hear nothing else. He is down to the Bill Mahr respect level for me, and I have -0 respect for Mahr (that’s right, I created a number just to prove how much I hate him).
Every single answer had to be some barb at Jay? Really? Every one? Not only were none of them remotely funny, but just saying crappy joke after crappy joke not only didn’t help your cause (you’re mad at Jay…we get it) but just made Kimmel seem like a petty kid, constantly making fun of someone because they don’t have anything intelligent to say. Never underestimate the value of a well placed shot to the gut, apparently Kimmel doesn’t understand the value of a good joke, but would rather fling crap as it appears in his (clearly) unintellectual head.
Go back to the Bill Mahr memorial “I have my ideas, they’re right, you’re wrong and you are an idiot for thinking differently than I” table. There’s a spot next to Artie Lang…
“What’s the best prank you ever pulled?”
“I promised a guy I’d give him a show after five years - then I immediately took it back,” was funny. You have to admit, that was at least remotely funny.
Also, not every single answer was about Jay, unless there’s a subtext to the Omarosa answer that I’m missing.
the majority of the 10@10 with Kimmel was an underhanded jab to Jay Leno. Whether it be Jay himself, his primetime show or even about him taking Conan off the air, it was a hatefest towards Jay. Jimmy Kimmel didn’t really pull any punches and it looked as if Jay Leno was uncomfortable with the segment and trying to move it along as fast a possible. I could be wrong and Jay set the whole thing up but to me it didn’t seem as if it was.
I take your point, but think there’s some rather important differences between the two cases that hugely influence public perception. The first and foremost is the plain old fact that when NBC first approached Conan about this contract in 2004, Jay had already had a perfectly respectable run at the helm of TTS. Twelve years, IIRC, and another five guaranteed to him. Even at 12 years, he had more time than the first two hosts put together. During that time, he didn’t have a similar show an hour and a half before him draining his ratings. By comparison, Conan has had 7 months, most of which time he has been seriously undermined by both the competition and the lack of lead-in ratings from Jay’s new show. It’s hard to objectively argue they’ve been treated equally in that respect.
And that unequal treatment makes both the network and Leno look pretty bad, frankly. Any fussing about him not being ready to step down looks…ungracious, as though he were unwilling to share the wealth and let somebody else have a turn. Mind you, I understand feeling that way, but it still looks greedy and selfish and those things are never attractive. And the network holding out these promises to Conan, tempting him with what everybody knows is a lifelong dream, then yanking him around…they look like Lucy yanking the football away from Charlie Brown. And as amusing as people might find Lucy the rest of the time, everybody wants to punch her in the face when she pulls that shit. If afterward she were to put the football down and let someone else run up and kick it while Charlie is lying there on his back winded, they would both look like total assholes.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I don’t think either one of them is funny, but I honestly don’t see how Leno is going to go back to TTS and not lose his nice guy image. You have the whole Charlie Brown football thing, and you have the not wanting to share thing compounding it, and even worse you have the added stigma of knowingly and willfully crushing someone’s dreams. Because that’s exactly what this is–it’s public knowledge that hosting TTS is a lifelong dream for Conan, and he’s not really been given the shot to succeed that Jay himself had. If Jay goes back, he’s going to look as though he has no empathy and no class.
Regarding the 10 at 10 thing…
I’d like to know what discussion occurred there anyway.
Kimmel dressed up like Jay Leno for an entire episode of his show for God’s sake! Of course it was setup. They knew that’s what would happen. Does anyone really think that Jay Leno brought Jimmy Kimmel on his show to ask him 10 questions (that happened to be easy to tie into this whole mess), and expect him to get straight serious answers?
Yes this is NBC screwup. They screwed up by trying to have a 5 night a week talkshow at 10:00 PM. That subsequently screwed over Conan before he ever got started. They screwed Conan again by saying they would push him back 30 minutes to give Leno a 30 minute lead it.
For you supporters of Leno out there, believe what you want. Personally I’ll stick by the belief that if the other major talk show people out there a calling Conan a truly nice guy, and that Leno is and was a douche bag, that’s probably how it is in real life. There’s enough fodder to bash NBC without making any attacks on Jay Leno, if they weren’t true.
Jay Leno’s comedy is funny enough. He’s not edgy. He’s a terrible interviewer. I recently watched some old Carson clips. Carson was more edgy than Leno… by far!
Leno will get his show back. He’ll be on the air five to seven more years, then what? As a matter of fact, it hasn’t been talked about yet, but when he announces his next retirement, the jokes are going to start up again.
NBC = Douche Bags
Jay Leno = egocentric Douche Bag
Probably for the best. I cant imagine the Leno crowd handling the masturbating bear or the coked up werefolf too well.
[hijack]Are you a Kevin Dorff fan? I notice him every time he’s on, as whatever character, for whatever reason.[/hijack]
Why do you say this? Because some celebrities are unhappy with how NBC is treating Conan? Because they are making jokes at Jay’s expense?
[/aside] I love Dorff- I was tangentially connected to him via the Chicago improv community- he has always cracked my shit up. He is a physical force live on stage- it’s hard to tell if it comes across on TV.
Kimmel’s 10@10 bits were not only funny, but they were totally set up. The only one that may have been off script was the prank one, and if it was ad lib Kimmel is very very quick, because it is worded perfectly. Jay is not afraid to play along with his growing image as a usurper, he is just enjoying the attention and trying to make some comedy along the way.
All of the late night hosts and their writers have really been stretching this past week, it’s kind of fun to watch everyone try to one-up one another. It’s clear that everything is a bit more focused and biting when they care about what they are writing about.
I thought there was some pretty funny stuff in there, but I agree that there were too many barbs thrown out – it weakened the whole bit. It seemed like Leno set Jimmy up to have a great bit at Jay’s expense – there were some softballs at the end. But Jimmy came out swinging for the bleachers from the get-go and thus the pacing was off.
Yeah, from the little that I watched I thought he did tone his style down. I should have been more clear though; I was giving Ebersol’s stated opinion, but I don’t particularly agree with it.
Those were the expectations of NBC, not those of the affiliates. Big difference.
FTR…
I do know and understand that Jay knew full well what he was doing bringing Jimmy on. Fully expecting a barb or two (in fact I audibly gasped when I learned Jay did it), but I don’t think anyone, Jay included, expected hit after hit after hit.
No doubt in my mind that you are 100% spot on here.
It was clearly set up, and while a few of the questions were pretty funny, I think they could have even gone further for more hard core laughs, but maybe Leno didnt want to cross a line on his home turf.
I would love to take this bet if I thought there was any conceivable way of settling it.
Leno had twice as many people watching The Tonight Show as Conan does and somewhat more than twice as many people watching his new show. Those are the only numbers that matters.
You have to define fans as people who defend Conan on the Internet to win this bet, but the Internet isn’t representative of anything. Never has been.
Can Conan be successful in another role and another place? Sure. The question is where? Moving to Fox won’t help. All you fans who are screaming about Leno’s lack of support will really scream if Conan’s support comes from people who watch Fox News at 10:00. How much of a lead-in will that give him? (The last talk show on Fox? Chevy Chase.) Conan will not be moving to the Internet. There’s no money there. Nobody will pay him $14 million to host an Internet show.
So how does NBC or anybody capitalize on this giant outpouring of delusion, er, love for Conan? I’d love to know. NBC would love to know. Conan would love to know. Please share.