Us real fanatics saw every episode (about half on Hulu, but surely NBC was counting that as well, right?). Your point about ratings is valid, but I think it’s safe to say that without Pope Leno (or President Grover Leno?) nipping at his heels, Conan would have been given more of a chance, and perhaps better ratings due to lead-in. But I imagine that’s already been hashed out in this long thread.
I should probably stop coming back to this thread; I’m actually pretty upset about this (within reason; as a late night fanatic this is a real drag). And there seem to be a lot of gloaters and naysayers in here. Maybe we just need two threads; an appreciation thread and a “serves the Ginger freak right” thread.
I don’t take it personally. I didn’t watch his Tonight Show earlier and I don’t feel bad about it - when he’s got it working, I think he’s really funny, but I’m a longtime Daily Show/Colbert viewer. But I do think Conan’s been pretty good about all of this, and his comments about NBC confirmed that. (I do plan to follow his next show.) And I don’t think Leno is the scum of the earth either. I’m not going to be applauding him but I think he was put into a bad position as well.
Nothing became Conan more during his stint at the Tonight show than his leaving of it. That was a fine last speech. I hope he finds a suitable home for his talents (I think Fox would give him more creative leeway than the other networks.)
Bye Conan. You weren’t my favorite talk show host (that would be Ferguson) but as the writer of the immortal Marge vs The Monorail you’ll always have a special place in my heart.
And I pray to all the gods in all the pantheons whatever that Leno crashes and burns. Smarmy creep that he is.
Maybe the fans should have a thread where they don’t have to meet reality. But I have nothing against Conan. I used to like him, then he grew repetitive and I moved on. I tried watching the new show and it didn’t work for me. Neither did Leno’s. Conan lost half of Leno’s audience, most of it before Leno was around to be blamed. That’s bad business. $200,000,000 of bad business. You can’t predict what may have happened in the future. NBC had to make a business decision now.
I just get tired of the people not paying attention to this reality. I get tired of people blaming Leno. I find it hypocritical to blame boomers when Conan drove his target demographics so low that they dropped lower than Leno. That’s unfortunate reality that all the screaming won’t change, even if it makes you all feel better.
What you really should be screaming about is that Better Off Ted is getting canceled and unlike both other shows, it’s really brilliant and should appeal to both groups and you’re not watching at all. If you’re going to complain about anything, turn your energies to that.
I haven’t read any of the thread.
But I really, really enjoyed the last 10 minutes of the last show, especially the part about cynicism. That was a nice send-off.
I’m not sure I understand your comment. I personally didn’t like Leno sticking around, but the money NBC threw his way was obscene. He’s not responsible for ruining the hopes and dreams of another show’s cast and crew. Please. I think you are being melodramatic.
And this is not something I haven’t seen in my own professional life. Just one example. A woman my company hired moved her entire family across the country, and five months later she was let go. Not because of performance, but because her division was eliminated. Now THAT sucked. She didn’t get a buy-out, or a golden parachute. She was hung out to dry.
Leno, if I remember correctly, struggled for the first few months, and when the buzz of Letterman wore off, his ratings continued to rise until he regularly beat Letterman. If he didn’t, I suspect he would have been gone. I don’t remember the specifics, but I don’t think it took him 7 months to catch Letterman. Even if I’m wrong on the timeline, the dynamics were different then. NBC was willing to ride Leno longer just because they didn’t want to look like they made a mistake by giving the Tonight Show to Leno and not to Letterman.
IMO, Leno should have said good-bye, just like Carson did. He made his money, he turned over the keys to the Tonight Show kingdom to Conan, and that should have been that. I was disappointed he stuck around. Quite frankly, if Carson did what Leno did, I’m guessing Carson would have replaced Leno in a time frame much less than 7 months. Carson, to me anyway, was the gold standard for the 11:30-12:30 time slot. Letterman, Leno, et. al. don’t even come close. I was sorry to see him retire.
So, to (hopefully) clear up any confusion, Carson did it right. I didn’t necessarily want him to fall off the face of the earth like he did, but I did like the fact that he left the Tonight Show forever. He knew how to retire and stay retired. (I’m looking at YOU, Brett Favre!)
I don’t understand . . . why not? Why, when something is offered to Jay Leno, is he suddenly obligated to take it? Does he have no say in the matter? That’s ridiculous. It’s not like he’s hurting for cash, he’s probably one of the country’s richest entertainers.
Of course? I agree that sucks? I thought we were here talking about the Tonight Show?
Yeah, you are, by a mile. It’s regularly accepted that Leno didn’t turn the ratings ship around until the Summer 1995 appearance by Hugh Grant, which is around the time he actually started beating Letterman. For those scoring at home, that’s almost three years into his tenure as the Tonight Show host. And he didn’t have to deal with Johnny Carson hanging around in the lobby, taking the best guests and giving him a crappy lead-in audience.
And why weren’t “NBC willing to ride Conan longer just because they didn’t want to look like they made a mistake by giving the Tonight Show to Conan and not to Leno”? Because Leno stuck around, made him know he was still willing to come back. Class act.
TV is much different now than it was in 92. If Leno was new to Tonight now he would not get years to get his ratings up. He might only get 6 months like Conan.
I don’t understand how someone accepting a very good job is a horrible thing - can anyone explain that to me? Just because someone is 59 and has a lot of money they should retire? If that’s the case many people in Hollywood should retire and let other people do their jobs.
I don’t think it was about Conan’s ratings. I think it was Leno’s failure that made NBC rethink the move. The Tonight show makes a lot of money. They can afford to let a guy grow an audience. But Leno’s spot required quicker success.
I don’t think TV is that much different. The difference is that the man who agreed to leave…didn’t.
Basically, I think most people that are upset at Jay think he should have said, “Well, my 10 PM show didn’t take, so I guess I should go. It’s not fair to Conan to jump back on the show just because he’s having a hard time in the early ratings. If it were me, I’d want a chance to make it on my own without the previous guy looming, so I’ll give it to him and leave.”
Then, he could have gone to another network or done comedy full time. I like Jay, but it just seems like he should have left.
I don’t think it’s quite that simple. If you apply this scenario to the real world it’d be terrible. I get hired on for a new job promotion because my predecessor moved on to a new job. It turns out my predecessor isn’t very good at his new job, so they essentially move him back to his old job (Now supposedly mine), and move me back to MY old job, except I keep the same title. I’m sorry, but that sucks balls all the way around..
Leno did not want to go to 10 PM, he thought it would not work. He was very happy at 11:35 and had high ratings. This all started when he was forced out of 11:35 by NBC.
TV is not the real world, average guys don’t get $32 million for 7 months work. Average guys also don’t have a chance to go to another job paying millions.
That’s it, plus the fact that when he talked about going back to the Tonight Show on his 10:00 show, he kept making “Those guys at NBC” comments, which I think is complete BS. Jay’s not getting screwed by being sent back to the TOnight Show, but Conan et al are getting screwed.
There are probably a dozen different options that NBC and Jay could have gone with, but this is what they’re doing and Jay’s trying to act as if he’s got nothing to do with it or any say in it. It would be that easy for him to say “No thanks, Conan has it now.” But he didn’t and he blamed the “Suits” for it.
