# LeRoy Neiman joins Thomas Kinkade in Bad Art Heaven **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833 "2012-06-21T12:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/1 "2012-06-21T12:56:18Z")
I just sent this obit out from work; mind you, I have to remain somewhat professional in my job: > [@](#): > > Magazine and advertising illustrator turned controversial “fine artist” LeRoy Neiman, 91, died yesterday (June 20) at the age of 91. Starting his career with Playboy in the 1950s, he created garish, colorful Eisenhower/Kennedy-era kitsch, which was hugely enjoyable (he also created the “Femlin,” the semi-naked sprite who cavorted on Playboy’s Party Jokes page). Neiman’s later career was more contentious, and hugely remunerative (his countless paintings sold for three figures, says the New York Times, and that does not include a decimal point). Neiman specialized in portraits and sports paintings, using bright colors, wild slashes of heavily-applied paint, and a semi-Impressionistic style. The Times added that Neiman “cast himself in the mold of French Impressionists like Toulouse-Lautrec, Renoir and Degas, chroniclers of public life who found rich social material at racetracks, dance halls and cafes,” though Messrs. Toulouse-Lautrec, Renoir and Degas could not be reached for comment. His memoirs, All Told: My Art and Life Among Athletes, Playboys, Bunnies and Provocateurs, were just published this month. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/2 "2012-06-21T13:26:00Z")
I saw the headline last night. Timely, because one of his paintings was just on Pawn Stars. Is it sad that I just said that? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/3 "2012-06-21T13:29:30Z")
Snerk. Did you write up anything when Patrick Nagel died - the 80’s Playboy artist with the “Robert Palmer Girl” prints? There’s something about Neiman I kinda liked. Not his art, more that his mustache went along with his art. If you are going to jump into what you are doing, go all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/4 "2012-06-21T13:41:59Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Did you write up anything when Patrick Nagel died - the 80’s Playboy artist with the “Robert Palmer Girl” prints? I can only send out obits of people whose photos we have in our collection, to send out to the media–so a lot of people I would love to obit (no, that doesn’t sound right) I don’t get to write about. I have to keep them very short, as we are plugging our photos, not my writing! I had a coworker de-bitch this one before it went out, you shoulda seen the first draft. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/5 "2012-06-21T13:45:26Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I have to keep them very short, as we are plugging our photos, not my writing! I had a coworker de-bitch this one before it went out, you shoulda seen the first draft. You should never de-bitch anything, **Eve**! That’s like giving Samson a haircut. Can you share any part of the fully-bitched one?? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/6 "2012-06-21T13:47:41Z")
I wouldn’t list him as Thomas Kinkade-bad. But he was the house artist for a house that didn’t know as much about art (and everything else) as it liked to think it did; the Playboy Mansion. Hardly the only person who sold his or her ass for a seat at Hefner’s free-hamburger banquet. Compare the [JFK portrait](http://www.centaurgalleries.com/Art/00126/48523d-0484x0600.jpg) by LeRoy Neiman, who had no credibility in the legitimate art world, with [Elaine de Kooning’s](http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/president/img_gal/9900196A.jpg), who did. Me, I see some difference, but not much. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/7 "2012-06-21T13:51:36Z")
From the OP’s quote: > [@](#): > > …his countless paintings sold for three figures, says the New York Times… Three figures doesn’t sound like a lot to me ($100-999), and unless he turned out a dozen a day, doesn’t seem to justify Neiman’s millions in donations. [This article,](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/arts/leroy-neiman-prolific-painter-of-sports-dies-at-91.html?pagewanted=all) also from the NY Times, suggests a better price range and income source (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > A prolific artist, he generated dozens of paintings each year that routinely commanded **five-figure prices.** When Christie’s auctioned off the Playboy archives in 2003, his 1969 painting “Man at His Leisure: Le Mans” sold for $107,550. Sales of the signed, limited-edition print versions of his paintings, published in editions of 250 to 500, became a lucrative business in itself after Knoedler Publishing, a wholesale operation, was created in 1975 to publish and distribute his serigraphs, etchings, books and posters. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/8 "2012-06-21T13:53:11Z")
Thank god the de-bitcher left this: > [@](#): > > …Messrs. Toulouse-Lautrec, Renoir and Degas could not be reached for comment. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/9 "2012-06-21T13:53:36Z")
**The Encyclopedia of Bad Taste** , a wonderful book, has a one-page entry on Neiman that manages to be both factual and snarky. It reprints the review one car magazine gave to his book effort, **Monte Carlo Chase** , which praised the binding and number of psages. I liked his stuff, as did lots of other folks (including one past boss, who had two of his pruints framed in his office), but recognize his place in the world of art. As TEoBD observed, his biggest crime was being loved by people who admittedly didn’t know art. He’ll be missed. Who the hell is going to draw Playbnoy’s Femlin every month NOW? By the way, Eve, the editor\* in me bristles as this: > [@](#): > > Magazine and advertising illustrator turned controversial “fine artist” LeRoy Neiman, 91, died yesterday (June 20) at the age of 91. If he was 91, it’s not surprising that he died at age 91, and it seems like harping if you repeat it. \*I really am a Contributing Editor, which allows me to scold authors about their writing, although not to get paid for the privilege. You’re not one of the authors I get to complain about, but I like to think I can provide gentle correction on my own time. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/10 "2012-06-21T13:58:05Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > If he was 91, it’s not surprising that he died at age 91, and it seems like harping if you repeat it. _Fuck_. See, I cannot copy edit my own stuff (no one can!), and the \*good \*proofreader is out this week, so the (obviously) \*not \*so good proofreader went over this. I gotta go hit him on the head. I agree that Kinkade was a worse artist: Neiman at least had some kitsch value; Kinkade’s stuff looked like it was painted by an evil teddy bear, using another evil teddy bear as a brush. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/11 "2012-06-21T14:03:28Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > \*I agree that Kinkade was a worse artist: Neiman at least had some kitsch value; Kinkade’s stuff looked like it was painted by an evil teddy bear, using another evil teddy bear as a brush. Concur. But Kinkade was a local celebrity where I live and we’re treated to the estate fight pretty much every day in the news. His legacy is not quite gone yet. The wife, the girlfriend, the children. That dude had oodles of cash, and the vultures are circling. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/12 "2012-06-21T14:04:09Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > _Fuck_. See, I cannot copy edit my own stuff (no one can!), and the \*good \*proofreader is out this week, so the (obviously) \*not \*so good proofreader went over this. I gotta go hit him on the head. > > I agree that Kinkade was a worse artist: Neiman at least had some kitsch value; Kinkade’s stuff looked like it was painted by an evil teddy bear, using another evil teddy bear as a brush. I love this description of Kinkade! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/13 "2012-06-21T14:11:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I love this description of Kinkade! Thanks . . . proofreader duly hit on head . . . It’s too late to fix, it’s gone out, and that one little mistake ruins the whole obit for me. _Fuck_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/14 "2012-06-21T14:12:05Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Thanks . . . proofreader duly hit on head . . . It’s too late to fix, it’s gone out, and that one little mistake ruins the whole obit for me. _Fuck_. Sorry. If it makes you feel any better, look at all the typos in my post. Schadenfreude is the best I can offer. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/15 "2012-06-21T14:12:38Z")
You might consider Neiman and Kincade “bad,” but at least I “get” what they’re painting. Compared to [Mark Rothko](http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=651&wrapid=tlif134028761341021&q=rothko&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hirjT6fVF8bD0QGgnsGsAw), for example, which just leaves me scratching my head. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/16 "2012-06-21T14:14:43Z")
So last night we were watching Pawn Stars from Monday night which (as mentioned above) featured a LeRoy Neiman print. I thought to myself, “I know LeRoy is pretty old, is he even still alive?” I Googled his name to find out if he was still around, and the first thing I find is notice of his death on the same day I’m checking to see if he’s alive. Such a strange coincidence. (cue Twilight Zone theme) I have to say that I’ve always enjoyed his art. Nothing amazing, but it had a quality to it that I like. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/17 "2012-06-21T14:31:23Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > You might consider Neiman and Kincade “bad,” but at least I “get” what they’re painting. Compared to [Mark Rothko](http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=651&wrapid=tlif134028761341021&q=rothko&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hirjT6fVF8bD0QGgnsGsAw), for example, which just leaves me scratching my head. Someone once made a joke about producing a Mike Rothko Paint-by-Number set. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/18 "2012-06-21T14:32:03Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > You might consider Neiman and Kincade “bad,” but at least I “get” what they’re painting. Compared to [Mark Rothko](http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=active&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=651&wrapid=tlif134028761341021&q=rothko&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hirjT6fVF8bD0QGgnsGsAw), for example, which just leaves me scratching my head. Oh, well, I cannot stand him or Willem De Koonig, either. I’m strictly a Titian, Ingres and Holbein girl. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/19 "2012-06-21T15:16:03Z")
Ingres? You mean the guy who made this [poor gal’s](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Jean_Auguste_Dominique_Ingres,_La_Grande_Odalisque,_1814.jpg) small-of-the-back two feet long and one leg shorter than the other? While Ingre’s was nowhere near as bad as [Neiman’s idea of a female nude](http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10673006_leroy-neiman-pastel-on-paper-of-nude-signed), have a look at [R.B. Kitaj](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TyCiHhDYbj0/T1M9LvKgQCI/AAAAAAAAJYQ/_-cgftlVgsA/s1600/1980+Marynka+Smoking+pastel+&+charcoal+on+paper+90.8+x+56.5+cm.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833/20 "2012-06-21T15:26:05Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Ingres? You mean the guy who made this [poor gal’s](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Jean_Auguste_Dominique_Ingres,_La_Grande_Odalisque,_1814.jpg) small-of-the-back two feet long and one leg shorter than the other? Actually, with both Ingres and Holbein, I prefer his drawings to his paintings: [http://chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ingltier.jpg](http://chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/ingltier.jpg) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leroy-neiman-joins-thomas-kinkade-in-bad-art-heaven/625833.md?page=2)