# Lesbian Golf Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073 "2006-07-03T18:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/41 "2006-07-03T23:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Um… they are the [Washington, DC](http://www.wnba.com/mystics/) WNBA team. [/QUOTE] OK. What has that to do with their she-fans tending to dykeness? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/42 "2006-07-03T23:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] OK. What has that to do with their she-fans tending to dykeness? [/QUOTE] Nothing. I am reporting personal experience. I have attended a number of Mystics games. There are, at these games, very vocal contingents of fans that are clearly lesbian. My cite here is me, my own experience. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/43 "2006-07-04T00:24:09Z")
Some FWIW on thw WNBA and Lesbians [Link #1](http://www.curvemag.com/Detailed/140.html) in which a Lesbian Mag notes the correaltion and some in the WNBA’s discomfort with it [Link #2](http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/news/story?id=2204322) in which (avoding a deabte say top 3) WNBA’s top 3 star Cheryl Swoops comes out and says a. “_But the talk about the WNBA being full of lesbians is not true. I mean, there are as many straight women in the league as there are gay. it is widely believed the WNBA is full of lesbians_” and b. “\*The WNBA is well aware of the support they get from the gay and lesbian community.” \* ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/44 "2006-07-04T02:36:12Z")
[QUOTE=jimmmy] Cheryl Swoops comes out and says a. “But the talk about the WNBA being full of lesbians is not true. I mean, there are as many straight women in the league as there are gay. it is widely believed the WNBA is full of lesbians” [/QUOTE] I don’t know if Sheryl misspoke here, but if there are indeed “as many straight women in the league as there are gay,” that’s a WHOLE LOT of gay women. I mean, 50%? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/45 "2006-07-04T12:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’m sorry, but I pay very little attention to sports. What reason do you have to believe lesbians predominate among female WNBA fans? [/QUOTE] [Here’s a 2001 cite.](http://www.girlbar.com/media.php?ID=3) > [@](#): > > Last week, more than a dozen news outlets, including Time magazine, The New York Times, Newsday and The Los Angeles Times, reported that the Los Angeles Sparks broke ground after the team filed off a bus and rubbed elbows with more than 1,500 patrons inside Girl Bar – a popular lesbian club in West Hollywood – in an effort to sell season tickets. > > But even though team members mixed with fans at Girl Bar for several hours signing autographs, basketballs and t-shirts, it was not the first time a WNBA team reached out to what many believe to be as the league’s core fan base. > > Cub team Miami Sol, last year made marketing appearances at two Broward lesbian bars while advertising in She magazine. In addition, they plan to co-sponsor the upcoming Aqua Girl festival in Miami Beach. The Sol goes into its second season next month. > [@](#): > > Kim Stone, senior director of operations for the Sparks, …conceded the bleachers are filled with, “75 percent women,” [but] sexual orientation isn’t checked at the door, she said. Maybe not, but the team is certainly making some pretty savvy marketing moves, critics say, by soliciting in a host of lesbian venues. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/46 "2006-07-04T13:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=astro] There is a much higher percentage of lesbians in competitive professional womens golf, relative to their representation in the overall US female occupational population. People can dicker about specifics, but the fact of the matter is that gay women are a very significant presence in the demographic cohort of professional female golfers in the US. [/QUOTE] A statement made so boldly certainly has statistics behind it. Cite? Please clarify for use what the relative numbers are. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/47 "2006-07-04T18:08:16Z")
[QUOTE=TokyoPlayer] A statement made so boldly certainly has statistics behind it. Cite? Please clarify for use what the relative numbers are. [/QUOTE] You are wise and prudent to question the absurd assertion that the women’s professional gold has a substantial cohort of gay participants. My web of lies is strewn in tatters at my feet. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/48 "2006-07-04T18:14:37Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] [Here’s a 2001 cite.](http://www.girlbar.com/media.php?ID=3) > [@](#): > > Kim Stone, senior director of operations for the Sparks, …conceded the bleachers are filled with, “75 percent women,” [but] sexual orientation isn’t checked at the door, she said. Maybe not, but the team is certainly making some pretty savvy marketing moves, critics say, by soliciting in a host of lesbian venues. [/QUOTE] Personal experience: there’s a lesbian bar here in town that I frequent from time to time, and there is _ALWAYS_ a ton of WNBA promotional material there. Schedules, mini-posters, flyers, etc. Funny that I always see it there, but don’t often see it in…say…Lady Foot Locker. I think the heads of the LPGA and WNBA know what side their bread is buttered on, and are savvy enough to court the lesbian crowd while still maintaining a mainstream image. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/49 "2006-07-04T18:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] I think the heads of the LPGA and WNBA know what side their bread is buttered on . . . [/QUOTE] [struggles to think of way to base obscene pun on the above] I’ll get back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/50 "2006-07-04T21:46:36Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 😕 I cannot recall the word “golf” being used in porn-film titles to any significant extent, and I ought to know! 😃 [/QUOTE] It’s usually spelled backwards. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/51 "2006-07-04T22:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=astro] You are wise and prudent to question the absurd assertion that the women’s professional gold has a substantial cohort of gay participants. My web of lies is strewn in tatters at my feet. [/QUOTE] It’s perfectly valid to question an assertion for which zero evidence has been presented. All I keep hearing is that there’s an unusual number of lesbians in the LPGA because, well, everyone is supposed to know it’s true. Let’s see the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/52 "2006-07-04T22:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] It’s perfectly valid to question an assertion for which zero evidence has been presented. All I keep hearing is that there’s an unusual number of lesbians in the LPGA because, well, everyone is supposed to know it’s true. Let’s see the evidence. [/QUOTE] The Dinah Shore tournament being one of the top destinations for lesbians is not even slightly probative? Or do you question that as well? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/53 "2006-07-04T22:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Let’s see the evidence. [/QUOTE] You should know by now that it’s going to be circumstantial, inferential, and hearsay at best. It \*has \* to be. Marketing, right? Women’s sports ratings, and therefore income, depend on the cheesecake factor. Most viewers are both straight and male (and I do hope you’re not going to demand a cite for _that_), pro sports market to that demographic, and there’s no getting around the importance of idle sexual fantasizing to them (well, us). Why the hell do you think beach volleyball players wear bikinis? But knowing the hot-looking chick plays for the other team in more ways than one strongly interferes with that, ya know. Best just not talk about it if it’s true. It’s bad for business. They’ve already fully penetrated the lesbian market ( 😃 ), so there’s nothing to gain financially anyway except perhaps by a few stars whose positions in the sport are secure anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/54 "2006-07-04T22:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Women’s sports ratings, and therefore income, depend on the cheesecake factor. Most viewers are both straight and male (and I do hope you’re not going to demand a cite for _that_), pro sports market to that demographic, and there’s no getting around the importance of idle sexual fantasizing to them (well, us). Why the hell do you think beach volleyball players wear bikinis? But knowing the hot-looking chick plays for the other team in more ways than one strongly interferes with that, ya know. [/QUOTE] It does? Given the amount of lesbian imagery in porn directed at straight guys (does anybody really require a cite for that), I don’t know that that follows. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/55 "2006-07-04T23:27:05Z")
Well, the way it works for _me_ (TMI alert) is that the girl-on-girl scenes in porn are because they don’t have a man around to help them, but would jump one if there was. Those scenes work not because they’re lesbians, but the _opposite_. How’s it work for you, dare I ask? And what light does that shed on the cheesecake factor in marketing women’s sports to men? ---
**Author:** ![Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grits_and_Hard_Toast)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/56 "2006-07-04T23:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] 1. Is the percentage of lesbians that are LPGA members measurably greater than the percentage of lesbians in the US’s general population? 2. Why? In the past, I’ve explored the question of why gay men seem more drawn to the theatre; the consensus, to the extent there was one, was that there was a certain parallel – an actor has to live a role that may be completely separate from his true self, and obviously a closeted gay man may feel a certain affinity and kinship for that necessity. That reasoning doesn’t seem to apply to women’s golf, though. [/QUOTE] From my experience in college, 20+ years ago, it had more to do with lifestyle. I knew an equal number of lesbian and straight females that played sports. The lesbians were much more likely to be talking about going pro, than the straight women. The straight women were looking to have careers in which being married with children would be a possibilty. The lifestyle of the professional athlete did not lend well for that. More time on the road than at home. Getting pregnant would definately require extended time off, so having two or three kids would pretty much end a sports career, but not other careers. The straight women didn’t see being a professional athlete as being that desirable. The lesbian women did see it as highly desirable. And the lesbians were more likely to have crushes on other female professional atheletes and were more likely to want to follow in their footsteps. The straight women didn’t follow other female professional atheletes the same way. I think things are changing now with women knowing they can start having children much later in life, and more girls in sports mean more jobs for women to coach if they want to stay with the sport if they should want to retire and have kids. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/57 "2006-07-05T00:43:04Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] The Dinah Shore tournament being one of the top destinations for lesbians is not even slightly probative? Or do you question that as well? [/QUOTE] Slightly probative at best. But, frankly, by itself, it’s simply not much to go on. A lot of gay men seem to have an inexplicable thing for Barbra Streisand, but Barbra Streisand is not a gay man. Most people who attend NBA games are white, which does not prove that most NBA players are white. Celine Dion’s fans are mostly Americans, which does not prove that Celine Dion is American. In any case, your own cites pretty clearly note that most of the lesbians who head for the Dinah Shore event don’t seem to actually give a crap about the golf tournament anyway. Really, if this fact is so obvious, as **Tokyo** suggests, the evidence should be easily found. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/58 "2006-07-05T03:24:04Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] My WAG: Homosexuals are gender outlaws. By preferring the same sex, they’re already flouting society’s expectations towards their gender (even if they are closetted). So, why not go a bit further? Atheleticism is still a masculine trait in our society, despite some progress towards equality in recent years. Thus, a homosexual woman, already “mannish” by some social metrics, may be more willing to give athletics a shot than her heterosexual sisters that went for the cheerleading squad. (In men, this means feminine behavior even to the point of cross dressing) Conversely, stereotypes can become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we expect lesbian golfers and gay male thespians, then that’s where they’ll go. Of course, this predicts that lesbians should be in all sports more or less equally, and that their relative number should decrese if and when society becomes more supportive of women’s athletics. [/QUOTE] I think we have a winning contestant. My version of Occam’s Razor says that if there’s a compelling sociological explanation, there’s no reason to posit a biological one without additional supporting evidence. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/59 "2006-07-06T03:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=astro] You are wise and prudent to question the absurd assertion that the women’s professional gold has a substantial cohort of gay participants. My web of lies is strewn in tatters at my feet. [/QUOTE] Nope. I’m not questioning if there is a substantial number. What I’m questions is your assertion that the number is significantly larger than the population at large. > [@](#): > > There is a much higher percentage of lesbians in competitive professional womens golf, relative to their representation in the overall US female occupational population. Once again, cite? What is the percentage of lesbians in competitive professional golf? What is the percentage of lesbians in “overall US female occupational population”? > [@](#): > > People can dicker about specifics, or, in this case, \*ask \* for specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073/60 "2006-07-06T20:22:57Z")
Totally off topic, but I was just talking with a friend who spent the weekend with a friend who has played and won on the PGA. Over beers he confirmed the “players don’t like Mickelson” talk, but my buddy and I suspect some aspect of that might be jealousy of his success. Tangentially relevant to this thread, he mentioned a single male pro who was a really nice guy but gay. Admittedly totally unsubstantiated heresay (but heck, the guy _does_ have a girl’s middle name!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-golf-questions/363073.md?page=4)