# Lesbian/Immigration Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717 "2002-09-09T21:44:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Docklands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/47e85d/32.png) [@Docklands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docklands)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/1 "2002-09-09T21:44:13Z")
Hello All I found this board by chance a few weeks a go. You seem an open-minded and knowledgeable lot so I thought you might help me with my query. If I make any faux pas please let me know (politely). Anyway, last month my greatest friend was married (unofficially) to another woman. They are very much in love. My friend is a British citizen and her spouse (terminology?) is American. They will spend the next year apart as they are studying in their respective countries. After that, they will want to live together indefinitely. Can you please offer any advice as to how they might go about that. I assume the US does not recognise same sex marriages and immigration would, I assume, be tough. I have no idea the stance on the UK side. I will check back in the next hour. I’m not sure when I will next be able to after that, please don’t think I have ignored your replies. Many Thanks, Docklands ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/2 "2002-09-09T22:35:57Z")
IANAL, but I work for a U.S. immigration law firm. U.S. law does not formally recorgnize same-sex marriage for immigration purposes. The U.K. partner’s best bet is to qualify independently for U.S. residency, whether through employment, study, another family relationship, or if she’s really, really lucky, through the immigration lottery. I can provide more details on the above if you give some idea of her professional and/or family situation…good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Docklands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/47e85d/32.png) [@Docklands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docklands)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/3 "2002-09-09T23:12:27Z")
Thanks Eva. Here are some more details My friend wants to work as a director in film and stage. She really is very good, but I don’t imagine that is going to be to helpful in getting a visa. I’m sure they would do pretty much anything to be together, so any tips, even for on a short term basis would be helpful. Maybe the UK is a better option? Some of the other things that crossed my mind were a series of periods where they live in the US and then the UK, or a sham marriage. Not sure wether these are feasible. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/4 "2002-09-10T00:13:04Z")
I’m not a lawyer either, but I’m confident that single-sex marriages aren’t recognised as grounds for immigration to the UK or for acquired UK citizenship. By “sham marriage” I assume you mean that one of them should marry a man in the target country to gain citizenship rights? That would be a really bad idea in my opinion as it would be illegal in both the US and the UK, may result in deportation, and so may prejudice the authorities’ attitide against their legal entry in the future. I wouldn’t suggest that option if I were you. Welcome to the SDMB by the way, and good luck to your friends anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![cdhostage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/5 "2002-09-10T02:15:30Z")
I don’t think that homosexual marriages will be recognized as such across America anytime soon. Vermont and Hawaii have setups less beneficial than real marriage for gays, as does Washington D.C. I don’t think that it’s legal for any landlord to refuse you on sexual orientation grounds. Other than that and tax help (oh dear… and hospital visitation and will rights and more and more)… what was I talking about? Oh right… the USA is a pretty sucky place to try and get official recognition for your soulmate. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/6 "2002-09-10T02:55:59Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **Docklands**. We don’t allow tips on how to break the law here, and that includes sham marriages. I’m sure you meant to ask for legal tips only, and our membership will respond accordingly. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/7 "2002-09-10T03:02:07Z")
The sham marriage idea is truly a Very Bad One from the US side. It definitely does not work like in the movies, where someone says “Quick! Marry my sister so she can stay in the country!”, a wedding occurs, and the INS agent says “Curses! Foiled again!” and punches his hat, stalking off into the sunset. I’m sure Eva Luna can elaborate on what the specific penalties and future obstacles would be, but I know from a general sense that they are not good. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/8 "2002-09-10T03:55:58Z")
Specific penalties and future obstacles truly suck. They include potential fines and jail sentences for perjury, as well as PERMANENT banning from receipt of any type of visa, even for a week-long vacation trip. About the other options: if your friend is nationally or internationally recognized in her field, or if she can get a job offer for a position that requires a bachelor’s degree in her field, then I can give you more specifics. That’s what my firm does. If you think this might be an option, please post here, and I’ll find a way to get in touch. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/9 "2002-09-10T04:08:47Z")
Your best luck is in becoming a citizen of the state of Vermont. Good Luck to you and your SO. Jaybee ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/10 "2002-09-10T04:15:07Z")
Immigration is a Federal portfolio, so applying directly to Vermont won’t help you, except that _maybe_ you might find a sympathetic immigration officer in Vermont. I kinda doubt it, though. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/11 "2002-09-10T04:19:48Z")
Yes, don’t apply Federally as as lesbian couble. Wait until both of you are citizens and the get Vermont residence. That is different from citizenship by the why. You can become a citizen of Vermont simply by moving there or declaring it you tax home. After you become a citizen that is. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/12 "2002-09-10T04:30:16Z")
Good news (almost)! The UK does recognize same-sex marriages for immigration purposes. The catch is that the couple has to have lived together for two years. I’m not a UK lawyer, but it looks like an option your friends should definitely look into. [Stonewall Immigration Group](http://www.stonewall-immigration.org.uk/) helps gay partners with immigration matters in the UK. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/13 "2002-09-10T04:42:43Z")
Docklands=Perhaps I was not clear and likely you do no understand thae difference between state and federal laws. First, becoming a citizen is covered by Federal laws. These laws cover all fiftey states and territories (ie Puerto Rico, Guam ect). Marrige is goverened by individual states (ie Texas, Maine, ect). Once you are a citizen your marrigage status is goverened in the state in which you declare yourself a resident. You then have a certain tax status that is ruled by that state. Federal law still applys for certain things (Federal Tax status). But state law will apply to certain very important regions such as State tax, inheritance and possibly heatlh insurance. Your friend needs to carefully look into which state she intends to become a resident. Some are very anti-gay.l ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/14 "2002-09-10T04:59:11Z")
**jaybee** , you are very confused. You are so confused that I can’t figure out how to explain why what you’re saying makes no sense. She can’t become a resident of Vermont without also becoming a resident of the United States (Vermont is in the United States), and the federal government controls who can live in the country. State law has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/15 "2002-09-10T05:04:28Z")
Duh, I said become a citizen first and the become a resident of the paticular state that allows gay marriges. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/16 "2002-09-10T05:24:52Z")
OK. It looks like you’ve misunderstood the OP’s question then. If you know of a way that her friend could become a citizen (resident, actually) of the United States, she would find that information helpful. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that some states are anti-gay, or that people in Vermont are pro-gay. There are gay-friendly areas throughout the United States. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/17 "2002-09-10T05:28:36Z")
You can become citizen without declaring your sexual persuasion. Is that simple enough for you. Many states still carry anti homosexuual laws on there books, even if they don’t enforce them on a routine basis. Vermont is not one of those. Sodomy is illegal in several southern states. That means anti gay in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Docklands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/47e85d/32.png) [@Docklands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docklands)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/18 "2002-09-10T07:41:48Z")
Thanks for all your responses. I guess the sham marriage thing was quite obviously illegal. Sorry. I just know somone who has done it with a gay man marrying a US women with no hitches Just for further clarification, having their marriage recognized, while inarguably important, is a pretty distant second to actually being together. The UK angle seems more promising already, which was my gut feeling ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/19 "2002-09-10T11:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jaybee \* > \*\*You can become citizen without declaring your sexual persuasion. > > Is that simple enough for you.\*\* It’s simple, but it still doesn’t answer the question. **Docklands** is looking for a basis on which her friend can immigrate to the US, given than her committed homosexual relationship with a US citizen does not of itself provide such a basis. Knowing that State A has more gay-friendly laws than State B is no help to her in answering this question. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717/20 "2002-09-10T11:39:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Docklands \* > **I guess the sham marriage thing was quite obviously illegal. Sorry. I just know somone who has done it with a gay man marrying a US women with no hitches** Likely because no one found out yet. And it’s still not easy. Eva Luna will correct me if I’m wrong, but AFAIK, the easiest and fastest way to become a US citizen, other than the “by birth” thing, is by the Fiancee I-29F (K1?) process, and that still can take nearly half a year just to get into the country under the “conditional permanent residency”. And IIRC, you still must be at that level for 2 years before you can change your status to “permanent permanent resident” or citizen…? And during that whole time, you have to fill out and swear to numerous forms, committing perjury multiple times. Ugh. That having been said, I do sympathize tremendously with the predicament you mention, for the obvious reasons. ☹ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbian-immigration-question/127717.md?page=2)