# Lesbians not allowed on the Penn State women's basketball team.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977 "2005-10-19T20:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/1 "2005-10-19T20:51:36Z")
…at least not if the coach [has it her way.](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/12938757.htm) > [@](#): > > Rene Portland is entering her 26th season as women’s basketball coach at Penn State and has a 578-204 record, with five Big Ten championships and an NCAA Final Four appearance in 2000. That’s not the record the National Center for Lesbian Rights is upset about. The organization is upset with what it says is a three-decade record of sexual discrimination and homophobic harassment by Portland toward players she thinks are gay. And they want Penn State, which instituted a school policy against such bias after protests targeted Portland in 1991, to do something about it. > > In threatening litigation on behalf of Jen Harris, a scholarship player who said she transferred out of Penn State because Portland accused her of being gay and harassed her over it, the NCLR claims to have compiled “evidence of hundreds of athletes over three decades,” who received similar treatment from Portland, according to sports project coordinator Helen Carroll. > > Many, Carroll said, would be willing to testify in any lawsuit. > > Many, Carroll said, are not gay. > > \ > > A former Pennsylvania High School Player of the Year in 2003, Harris was third on Penn State in points, steals and assists last season as a sophomore. According to a biography included on the NCLR Web site, she was a 4-year member of the National Honor Society in high school and was a President’s Academic Award recipient with an eye toward a medical career. > > In Harris, the NCLR has its perfect vehicle: a player who is not protesting diminished playing time or even strategy, but stigmatism. > > “Because Coach Portland thought that I was gay, I was treated in a very demeaning manner,” Harris, who says she is not a lesbian, said in an NCLR news release. “Coach Portland created an offensive, hostile and intimidating learning environment for players she believed were gay. She created divisiveness on the team by instructing players not to associate with other players she believed to be gay, or they would be kicked off the team also. Coach Portland’s final insult was to exclude me from the 2004-2005 Awards Banquet, which all of my 2004-2005 Lady Lion basketball teammates were invited to attend.” > > This is not Portland’s first run-in with gay activists. She told the Chicago Sun-Times in 1986 her program did not allow lesbians. In 1991, it was reported that she warned her teams at the start of each season that she would not tolerate drinking, drugs or lesbians, triggering a series of protests that resulted in the school’s expanding its antidiscrimination policy to include sexual orientation. For the record, Portland has denied any harassment or discrimination and is claiming that Harris had a “bad attitude.” Penn State is now facing the threat of another lawsuit if [this statement](http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/10/10-18-05tdc/10-18-05dsports-11.asp) by Portland is not retracted: > [@](#): > > n a statement on Friday, Portland said Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning and performance in the classroom.” > > Harris originally threatened legal action on the basis of harassment and will now be adding claims of defamation to future legal action, her attorney said. > > “There is no First Amendment right to make false and malicious allegations,” Karen Doering, Harris’ lawyer, said. “It doesn’t take a lot of investigation by the university to see that coach Portland’s statement contains false information.” > > Doering called Portland’s statement “patently false” since Harris’ academic performance was above minimum NCAA requirements. Harris’ grade point average was about 3.0, according to the NCLR. The NCAA minimum is 2.0. Penn State claims that it is currently “investigating” the allegations and has refuse d to make any other statements. The really unfortunate thing is that this may actually work to Penn State’s favor. Apparently there is a current [trend](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A35013-2003Jan23¬Found=true) for colleges to use homophobia as a recruiting tool. Anyway, let’s hope Penn State fires this bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/2 "2005-10-19T20:58:47Z")
Not taking sides on the underlying issue, but… Portland said Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning and performance in the classroom.” Doering called Portland’s statement “patently false” since Harris’ academic performance was above minimum NCAA requirements. Harris’ grade point average was about 3.0, according to the NCLR. The NCAA minimum is 2.0. Portland’s statement is not patently false unless ALL the elements are false. That is, a player could be a star performer during games, a star performer during practices, and at peak physical condition, and still fail to meet classroom criteria. Or a player could meet classroom criteria and be in top physical condition and a peak performer during games, but fail to perform during practices. A failure on any single condition triggers the failing mark overall. Doering’s supposed rebuttal based solely on academic performance is meaningless. That bit of illogic aside, I fail to see what the hell the problem is with lesbians playing ball. Is it contagious? Will other girls get the Gay? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/3 "2005-10-19T21:04:46Z")
In any event, why would you be concerned about lesbianism in an athletic program where the girls like playing with big balls? I’m so sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/4 "2005-10-19T21:07:05Z")
She did not fail at any of the criteria. She succeedod on the court and in the classroom. Her decision to leave was her own. She was not cut and Coach Portaland did not make any of these sorts of statements until after the lawsuit was filed. Plus, Portland is publicly on record as making statements about “not tolerating” lesbians, etc. It also seems that there are other players willing to back up Harris’ side of the story. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/5 "2005-10-19T21:18:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not taking sides on the underlying issue, but… > > Portland said Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning and performance in the classroom.” > > Doering called Portland’s statement “patently false” since Harris’ academic performance was above minimum NCAA requirements. Harris’ grade point average was about 3.0, according to the NCLR. The NCAA minimum is 2.0. > > Portland’s statement is not patently false unless ALL the elements are false. That is, a player could be a star performer during games, a star performer during practices, and at peak physical condition, and still fail to meet classroom criteria. Or a player could meet classroom criteria and be in top physical condition and a peak performer during games, but fail to perform during practices. A failure on any single condition triggers the failing mark overall. Doering’s supposed rebuttal based solely on academic performance is meaningless. > > That bit of illogic aside, I fail to see what the hell the problem is with lesbians playing ball. Is it contagious? Will other girls get the Gay? No her statement is: Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*performance in the classroom.” The “and” in her statement means that each element must be true for the statement to be true. Harris’ GPA is prima facie evidence that her level of committment to the classroom was at an acceptable level. The last element of Portland’s statement is false thus the statement as a whole is false. The first 3 elements may be true (and its impossible to prove those 3 false) but the last one is false. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/6 "2005-10-19T21:28:11Z")
I know there’s nothing more aggravating than being accused of something that isn’t true. But I can’t help wishing the stock response to “Are you gay?” was “Mind your own business. Asshole.” But that’s not important now. I hope Portland gets it in the shorts. _(And I hope I can restrain the urge to make a Witchsmeller Pursuivant joke.)_ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/7 "2005-10-19T21:36:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No her statement is: > > Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*performance in the classroom.” > > The “and” in her statement means that each element must be true for the statement to be true. Harris’ GPA is prima facie evidence that her level of committment to the classroom was at an acceptable level. The last element of Portland’s statement is false thus the statement as a whole is false. The first 3 elements may be true (and its impossible to prove those 3 false) but the last one is false. Scratch that I messed up my whiches. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/8 "2005-10-19T21:49:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No her statement is: > > Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*performance in the classroom.” > > The “and” in her statement means that each element must be true for the statement to be true. Harris’ GPA is prima facie evidence that her level of committment to the classroom was at an acceptable level. The last element of Portland’s statement is false thus the statement as a whole is false. The first 3 elements may be true (and its impossible to prove those 3 false) but the last one is false. I think this: “A former Pennsylvania High School Player of the Year in 2003, Harris was third on Penn State in points, steals and assists last season as a sophomore. According to a biography included on the NCLR Web site, she was a 4-year member of the National Honor Society in high school and was a President’s Academic Award recipient with an eye toward a medical career.” …refutes at least the first and third elements of the statement as well. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/9 "2005-10-19T23:00:28Z")
I was planning on pitting Penn State tonight. As a avid follower of women’s college basketball I’ve been following this for some time. Glad some one beat me to it. > [@Hamadryad](#): > > I think this: > > “A former Pennsylvania High School Player of the Year in 2003, Harris was third on Penn State in points, steals and assists last season as a sophomore. According to a biography included on the NCLR Web site, she was a 4-year member of the National Honor Society in high school and was a President’s Academic Award recipient with an eye toward a medical career.” > > …refutes at least the first and third elements of the statement as well. I think the reason why Jen Harris has such a compelling and strong case is that she **was** such an outstanding player and student. Her 3.0 grade point was while majoring in pre-med. She played in every single game she was eligible for over her entire career at Penn State. She averaged over 10 points a game and would have been the only returning player to average over double digits in points. She started most of her sophomore season and played an average of 25 minutes per game. Hardly the statistics of a marginal player. As a matter of fact, by any measure she would have been the best player on the team this year. If she HAD been at the end of the bench, then that old standby - “She was just unhappy over playing time” would have been trotted out. Something very hard to refute. A very good summary of the entire situation can be found here: [http://www.womenshoops.blogspot.com/](http://www.womenshoops.blogspot.com/) The message board that is discussing this the most and has all the latest is this one: [http://boards.rebkell.net/viewforum.php?f=2](http://boards.rebkell.net/viewforum.php?f=2) The reason all of Penn State needs to pitted, not just Rene (Which rhyms with meenie, btw) comes from the University response such as this one as described in [http://outsports.com/women/20051018reneportland.htm](http://outsports.com/women/20051018reneportland.htm) and this, fromthe women’s hoop blog "University spokesman Bill Mahon told AP that Portland was free to comment as she saw fit. “To demand that we take an individual’s free speech away from them is wrong,” Mahon said Monday. “I’m sure it’s normal for anybody to respond when allegations are made against them in the front pages of newspapers.” “There is no First Amendment right to make false and malicious allegations,” Karen Doering, Harris’ lawyer with the NCLA, told the Daily Collegian. “It doesn’t take a lot of investigation by the university to see that coach Portland’s statement contains false information.” and this, fromthe women’s hoop blog "Penn State spokesman Bill Mahon continues to insist that this whole thing appeared out of the blue. “Until less than a week ago, this wasn’t an issue,” he said. Mahon added that the 1991 addition of sexual orientation to the school’s antidiscrimination policy had nothing to do with Portland. “I know newspapers have speculated [why the clause was added], but it’s all part of someone’s imagination,” he said. “We did it because we thought it was right.” Mahon is either a liar or a complete moron. The former is more likely. Just to recap the history: Longman’s article on Portland was published on March 10, 1991. Protests began on campus immediately demanding action. The Penn State Faculty Senate met on March 20 and voted 93-12 to add orientation to the antidiscrimination policy. The AP and the Philly Inquirer reported that the Senate’s debate included discussion of Portland’s policy and Longman’s article. The Senate’s action was recommended by a policy committee chaired by math professor Donald Rung. After the Senate’s vote, Rung said: “It’s not clear what impact this would have on [Portland]. Clearly, all people need to be judged on their merits and not on some irrelevant issue.” And here’s what Athletic Director Jim Tarman said after the policy was adopted: “Because of recent media attention, it is especially important that we make it clear beyond question that discrimination against any group is contrary to the mandate of this institution.” ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/10 "2005-10-19T23:03:35Z")
> [@Long Time First Time](#): > > Longman’s article on Portland was published on March 10, 1991. Protests began on campus immediately demanding action. > > The Penn State Faculty Senate met on March 20 and voted 93-12 to add orientation to the antidiscrimination policy. The AP and the Philly Inquirer reported that the Senate’s debate included discussion of Portland’s policy and Longman’s article. > > ." Just to clarify - the Longman article was one in which Portland was quoted as stating that she would not allow lesbians on her team. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/11 "2005-10-19T23:04:53Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No her statement is: > > Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes performance during games, performance during practices, physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*performance in the classroom.” > > The “and” in her statement means that each element must be true for the statement to be true. Harris’ GPA is prima facie evidence that her level of committment to the classroom was at an acceptable level. The last element of Portland’s statement is false thus the statement as a whole is false. The first 3 elements may be true (and its impossible to prove those 3 false) but the last one is false. The LEVEL OF COMMITMENT includes: [ul] [li]performance during games[/li][li]performance during practices[/li][li]physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*[/li][li]performance in the classroom[/li][/ul] In order to meet the LEVEL OF COMMITMENT, Harris must meet every element. Proving she met only one of those items does not prove she met all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/12 "2005-10-19T23:07:04Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > I think this: > > “A former Pennsylvania High School Player of the Year in 2003, Harris was third on Penn State in points, steals and assists last season as a sophomore. According to a biography included on the NCLR Web site, she was a 4-year member of the National Honor Society in high school and was a President’s Academic Award recipient with an eye toward a medical career.” > > …refutes at least the first and third elements of the statement as well. Yup. And frankly it’s hard to imagine performing like that without the requisite physical conditioning. So I’d expect that in order for the criticism to be true, there are either other unstated elements of the “Level of Commitment,” or she failed to perform acceptably during practice. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/13 "2005-10-19T23:17:36Z")
Minor point unrelated to discrimination issues: A 3.0 GPA is not likely to advance your prospects of a medical career. Unless you’ve got influential friends in the Dominican Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/14 "2005-10-19T23:19:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yup. > > And frankly it’s hard to imagine performing like that without the requisite physical conditioning. > > So I’d expect that in order for the criticism to be true, there are either other unstated elements of the “Level of Commitment,” or she failed to perform acceptably during practice. Of course, it’s kind of hard to imagine her being that good on the court if she routinely slacked off in practice, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/15 "2005-10-19T23:32:39Z")
If there was an issue with her practice habits it didn’t seem to affect her playing time or her game performance and Portland never said anything about it before Harris transferred. Once again, Harris was the one who chose to leave Penn State. She was never benched or cut by Portland so Portland’s statement that Harris “failed to succeed” is completely disingenuous. Harris was succeeding just fine at both basketball and academics. She didn’t leave because she was forced to or because she wasn’t getting playing time. She claims she left only because of Portland’s harassment and apparently other players are willing to back her up. It doesn’t make sense at this point to say that she leftbecause she had a bad attitude during practices (the only thing which isn’t demonstrably a success of the four items listed). That implies that the team or that Portland were involved in the decision. A successul, star player walked away from the team, not a bubble player or a back bencher and not somebody who had been disciplined or had playing time cut. When you add in the additional factors that Portland is on record as publicly stating that she doesn’t want lesbians on her team and that her lawyers say they have other players willing to support Harris’ allegations then Occam starts to slice this story to ribbons. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/16 "2005-10-19T23:33:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The LEVEL OF COMMITMENT includes: > [ul] > [li]performance during games[/li][li]performance during practices[/li][li]physical conditioning \*\*and \*\*[/li][li]performance in the classroom[/li][/ul] > > In order to meet the LEVEL OF COMMITMENT, Harris must meet every element. Proving she met only one of those items does not prove she met all of them. I acknowledged that I misread the comments. ---
**Author:** ![aamco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@aamco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aamco)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/17 "2005-10-19T23:39:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Jen Harris, a scholarship player who said she transferred out of Penn State > [@](#): > > Portland said Harris “did not meet the level of commitment I expect all players to have to this great program, which includes …” From a logical standpoint, Portland is completely right. All she has to do is admit that putting up with homophobic comments and never thinking about leaving the program are additional elements to the level of commitment she expected. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/18 "2005-10-19T23:51:25Z")
Penn State coaches in general are having a rough year. Pennsylvania newspapers sued the university to release Joe Paterno’s salary. The university is fighting this tooth and nail. [Here](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05125/499392.stm) is an article about that. I think one of the underlying issues is that PSU thinks it’s entirely private and above any kind of scrutiny. It receives tax money from the state, and its employees are employed by the civil service and subject to state retirement, but they fight any attempts at transparency. According to them, their meetings aren’t subject to the state’s open-meeting law. I’m willing to bet Portland honestly thought she could have this policy and no one would be the wiser. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/19 "2005-10-19T23:55:01Z")
Legally speaking PSU is a state institution isn’t this against the law, or something? I guess maybe it’s a grey area or it would have been brought up already, but typically public schools are not allowed to just carte blanche discriminate like this. Or maybe Penn State University isn’t a public school. . . but I doubt that given the name of the institution. If this was just an isolated incident I might say this is an argument between a player and a coach gone too far. Since there are so many others willing to support Harris’s side I’d say this coach probably is pretty discriminatory and sounds like a real pain in the ass to play for. Of course, she does have a pretty good record, and in sports isn’t that all that really matters? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977/20 "2005-10-19T23:57:28Z")
I just looked it up online, PSU is definitely a public school and is one of the land-grant institutions founded after the civil war. I’m shocked that Joe Paterno’s salary is not public already. Sports Illustrated regularly publishes a list of the top 25 coaching salaries in divsion IA football. And there is always a little caveat about people like Larry Coker (University of Miami’s head football coach) who have “indeterminate” salaries because they work for private schools that do not have to report the salary of their football coaches. Just from that little blurb I read in SI every year I assumed public schools did have to reveal this information. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesbians-not-allowed-on-the-penn-state-womens-basketball-team/326977.md?page=2)