# Lesser Included Offenses and charging **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesser-included-offenses-and-charging/571468 "2011-02-15T17:41:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesser-included-offenses-and-charging/571468/1 "2011-02-15T17:41:32Z")
A person here in CT has [recently been charged for a fatal hit-and-run accident with a pedestrian](http://www.courant.com/community/hartford/hc-hartford-hospital-hit-and-run-021620110215,0,127278.story). In addition to the charges of evading responsibility, reckless driving and speeding, he faces _both_ first-degree and second-degree manslaughter charges. The CT penal code defines “Manslaughter in the first degree” as: > [@](#): > > (a) A person is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree when: …or (3) under circumstances evincing an extreme indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person. (General Statutes § 53a-55 subsections about intent to cause injury and extreme emotional disturbance omitted) It defines “Manslaughter in the second degree” as: > [@](#): > > (a) A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when: (1) He recklessly causes the death of another person (General Statutes § 53a-56 subsection about assisted suicide omitted) As I understand lesser included offenses (mostly from this Board), second-degree manslaughter would be a lesser included offense of first-degree manslaughter in these circumstances, wouldn’t it? Both require proving of reckless behavior directly leading to the victim’s death. First-degree also requires the state to prove conduct which the average person would recognize as creating a grave risk of death, and proving the conduct shows extreme indifference. Second-degree has no further requirements. Isn’t that the classic definition of LIO? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesser-included-offenses-and-charging/571468/2 "2011-02-15T17:51:18Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > A person here in CT has [recently been charged for a fatal hit-and-run accident with a pedestrian](http://www.courant.com/community/hartford/hc-hartford-hospital-hit-and-run-021620110215,0,127278.story). In addition to the charges of evading responsibility, reckless driving and speeding, he faces _both_ first-degree and second-degree manslaughter charges. > > The CT penal code defines “Manslaughter in the first degree” as: > (General Statutes § 53a-55 subsections about intent to cause injury and extreme emotional disturbance omitted) > > It defines “Manslaughter in the second degree” as: (General Statutes § 53a-56 subsection about assisted suicide omitted) > > As I understand lesser included offenses (mostly from this Board), second-degree manslaughter would be a lesser included offense of first-degree manslaughter in these circumstances, wouldn’t it? Both require proving of reckless behavior directly leading to the victim’s death. First-degree also requires the state to prove conduct which the average person would recognize as creating a grave risk of death, and proving the conduct shows extreme indifference. Second-degree has no further requirements. Isn’t that the classic definition of LIO? I don’t know about USA, but in the UK the Crown prosecution Service often includes lesser offences on the indictment to ‘help’ the jury out. Though on a murder indictment they’re less keen to actually include the lesser offence of manslughter on the indictment because they’re frightened that a jury may encourgae the jury to go for the ‘halfway’ option. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesser-included-offenses-and-charging/571468/3 "2011-02-15T18:45:39Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > As I understand lesser included offenses (mostly from this Board), second-degree manslaughter would be a lesser included offense of first-degree manslaughter in these circumstances, wouldn’t it? Both require proving of reckless behavior directly leading to the victim’s death. First-degree also requires the state to prove conduct which the average person would recognize as creating a grave risk of death, and proving the conduct shows extreme indifference. Second-degree has no further requirements. Isn’t that the classic definition of LIO? Yes, that’s the classic definition of a lesser included offense, and yes, under the facts described, having both first-degree and second-degree manslaughter charges is an example of a lesser-included offense being charged. Am I reading too much into your question by asking you… is that what you wanted to know? Or was there something more? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesser-included-offenses-and-charging/571468/4 "2011-02-15T19:36:43Z")
Just in case: No, I’m not connected to the defendant or the victim in any way, except by geographic proximity. How common is it for the LIO to be one of the charges? I thought LIO issues were part of the process of charging the jury?