# Lesson learned the hard way, wear a life vest
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 11, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973 "2010-08-11T20:32:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/41 "2010-08-13T04:40:01Z")
In my high school, you couldn’t graduate unless you knew how to swim. Every semester we had swimming every day for 6 weeks. That means by the time you graduate, you’ve had 180 swimming classes. If you still can’t swim by then, stay the hell away from water for the rest of your life.
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/42 "2010-08-13T04:47:28Z")
> [@panache45](#):
>
> In my high school, you couldn’t graduate unless you knew how to swim. Every semester we had swimming every day for 6 weeks. That means by the time you graduate, you’ve had 180 swimming classes. If you still can’t swim by then, stay the hell away from water for the rest of your life.
And my school in sunny California didn’t have this requirement- in fact not one of the 15 high schools in the city did. (This was 2004). I really feel this whole swimming in high school thing doesn’t happen much anymore (save for the swim team, of course), but certainly was more prevalent a (couple?) few decades ago.
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### Author:  [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/43 "2010-08-13T12:57:30Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#):
>
> > [@panache45](#):
> >
> > In my high school, you couldn’t graduate unless you knew how to swim. Every semester we had swimming every day for 6 weeks. That means by the time you graduate, you’ve had 180 swimming classes. If you still can’t swim by then, stay the hell away from water for the rest of your life.
>
> And my school in sunny California didn’t have this requirement- in fact not one of the 15 high schools in the city did. (This was 2004). I really feel this whole swimming in high school thing doesn’t happen much anymore (save for the swim team, of course), but certainly was more prevalent a (couple?) few decades ago.
And consider that there are gonna be a lot of poorer schools that don’t have a pool, too. And [generalizing] people who go to school in a poorer district _usually_ do not have the money for beach vacations or backyard pools either and didn’t have parents who grew up swimming, so going to the Y to swim isn’t on the radar[/generalizing].
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### Author:  [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/44 "2010-08-13T13:53:32Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#):
>
> And consider that there are gonna be a lot of poorer schools that don’t have a pool, too. And [generalizing] people who go to school in a poorer district _usually_ do not have the money for beach vacations or backyard pools either and didn’t have parents who grew up swimming, so going to the Y to swim isn’t on the radar[/generalizing].
Are you saying that a normal-sized city doesn’t have at least **one** public swimming pool? I live in a city with 1.3 mio. people, and we have 8 indoor pools plus 8 outdoor pools for summer. So the schools go there for swimming lessons. (And yes, my city is better off than most - in the past years, as the communities have grown more and more indebted, more and more are shutting down their swimming pools.)
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### Author:  [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/45 "2010-08-13T14:24:40Z")
I saved a guy from drowning once and if I wasn’t the strong swimmer I was he was he would of pulled me under with him. Drowning people freak out. I was swimming nearby on a beach no life jackets around I’ll wear one if I can to save a drowning person.
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### Author:  [@Redwing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redwing)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/46 "2010-08-13T15:00:49Z")
I’ve been knocked out of a boat a couple of times. I’m pretty sure I’d have been fine even without a vest, but I’ve never been inclined to find out by not wearing one. Also, bring a ladder, so when you fling the biggest guy in the group off his tube, you can get him back in the boat without tearing his shoulder.
As for learning to swim, the town I grew up in, all five junior and senior high schools had swimming pools, plus 3? public pools open in the summer, plus the Y and the rec center, and I think one or two of the hotels would open their pools for swimming lessons for little kids. I can’t think of any place I’ve lived that swimming lessons weren’t easily available, and locations to swim more so.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/47 "2010-08-13T15:01:11Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#):
>
> > [@DiosaBellissima](#):
> >
> > And my school in sunny California didn’t have this requirement- in fact not one of the 15 high schools in the city did. (This was 2004). I really feel this whole swimming in high school thing doesn’t happen much anymore (save for the swim team, of course), but certainly was more prevalent a (couple?) few decades ago.
>
> And consider that there are gonna be a lot of poorer schools that don’t have a pool, too. And [generalizing] people who go to school in a poorer district _usually_ do not have the money for beach vacations or backyard pools either and didn’t have parents who grew up swimming, so going to the Y to swim isn’t on the radar[/generalizing].
I went to HS from 1998-2002, we had a swimming section with our gym class. I think it lasted a few weeks. OTOH, I think it was more of water sports type stuff. To the best of my knowledge we all knew how to swim long before high school.
In Milwaukee, there are plenty of free pools in the city. In fact, during heat waves (like right now) a lot of the ones in the poorer neighborhoods have extended hours to help out with people that don’t have an AC or can’t afford to run it.
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/48 "2010-08-13T15:48:35Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#):
>
> And consider that there are gonna be a lot of poorer schools that don’t have a pool, too. And [generalizing] people who go to school in a poorer district _usually_ do not have the money for beach vacations or backyard pools either and didn’t have parents who grew up swimming, so going to the Y to swim isn’t on the radar[/generalizing].
[There is a correlation between parents’ income and whether a child knows how to swim.](http://www.slate.com/id/2262802/) You’re less likely to be able to swim if your parents are poor.
> [@constanze](#):
>
> Are you saying that a normal-sized city doesn’t have at least one public swimming pool? I live in a city with 1.3 mio. people, and we have 8 indoor pools plus 8 outdoor pools for summer. So the schools go there for swimming lessons. (And yes, my city is better off than most - in the past years, as the communities have grown more and more indebted, more and more are shutting down their swimming pools.)
Poor people also tend to have less leisure time. They don’t have as much time to take their kids to the public pool as rich families do.
Poor schools are cutting all kinds of things that are not on standardized tests. It’s not surprising that swimming is one of the things that’s getting cut.
The Y charges a membership fee. I haven’t belonged to a Y in a while, but IIRC it wasn’t that cheap when I did. Some community swimming pools also charge a membership fee. You wouldn’t expect people who can’t pay their rent/mortgage or utility bills to be spending money on a pool membership.
It also helps to have access to a well-running car, to take your kids to a public pool. Not all poor people have that, and I suspect the public pools don’t tend to be conveniently located for people living in the poorer parts of town. Poor people might go to pools less than wealthier families for the same reasons they shop at convenience stores instead of grocery stores.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/49 "2010-08-13T16:15:16Z")
I spend as many days on the water each year as my schedule permits. I am a fair swimmer. Much of my water time is solo, as per my preference. I do not wear a life jacket except for extreme circumstances.
I have taken some shit from fellow kayakers who find my behavior improper. I try to explain to them that I am taking a risk. I am not averse to taking this risk, which is an educated risk.
That aside, most people should wear a life jacket when on the water.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/50 "2010-08-13T16:27:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> > [@fuzzypickles](#):
> >
> > Darwin strikes again!
>
> Fuck you. Here’s hoping he strikes again.
Reminder:
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* * *
fuck you
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> **[Restricted language in the Pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858)**
>
> The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper motherfucker cocksucker fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die suck/lick my dick/cock and variants Expressions not...
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### Author:  [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/51 "2010-08-13T17:14:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> From the Idaho State Journal story:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Jeffries said the investigation is still ongoing but at this point officials believe one of the men jokingly pushed another into the water. When that person began struggling, one of the other men jumped into the water to try to save him but he also started struggling. The scenario repeated itself as the third and fourth men also tried to save the others.
>
> Wasn’t this a _Family Guy_ episode?
I believe they were just trying their own spin on [this classic movie](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCeD2gF9jUo)
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/52 "2010-08-13T17:25:16Z")
> [@lieu](#):
>
> I couldn’t believe what I was reading earlier; 5 kids go out with 4 adults so the kids ought to be in good hands, right? So how come it’s only the 5 kids that make it back?
Reminds me of the time the dog fell in the river, two guys jumped in after it and the dog made it out alive.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/53 "2010-08-13T23:14:26Z")
A few weeks ago, 8 children drowned in the Red River (Arkansas). Not one of them could swim, and none were wearing life jackets.
Sad, but a prevantable tragedy.
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### Author:  [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/54 "2010-08-13T23:52:52Z")
Last weekend, we took 6 adults and 4 teenagers, 2 children and a chihuahua for a 5 hour float down the Missouri river in a canoe, a raft and a number of float tubes.
Max, the chihuahua, was the only one without a life jacket. (And only because the canine life jacket for we had was for a cocker spaniel and wouldn’t tighten down sufficiently to fit him.)
It’s common sense.
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### Author:  [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/55 "2010-08-14T00:56:49Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#):
>
> Depending on what kind of water I’m in on a boat, I might not wear a life jacket, but I’m a good swimmer. But how in God’s name do you not wear a life vest if you know _you cannot swim_?
I’ve boated with morons like that. The answer is simple.
Because then you don’t look cool.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/56 "2010-08-14T03:09:48Z")
> [@Patch](#):
>
> > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#):
> >
> > Depending on what kind of water I’m in on a boat, I might not wear a life jacket, but I’m a good swimmer. But how in God’s name do you not wear a life vest if you know _you cannot swim_?
>
> I’ve boated with morons like that. The answer is simple.
>
> Because then you don’t look cool.
But on the plus side, wearing a vest doesn’t interfere with drinking beer or smoking dope.
---
### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/57 "2010-08-14T12:46:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> > [@Patch](#):
> >
> > I’ve boated with morons like that. The answer is simple.
> >
> > Because then you don’t look cool.
>
> But on the plus side, wearing a vest doesn’t interfere with drinking beer or smoking dope.
Ummm, yeah. But I think you might be going for sarcasm. But seriously, it is a comfort thing. Weigh the pros/cons pluses/minuses of any situation. Should I drive faster than the speed limit? There are situations (getting to the church on time, reaching a bathroom) where the risk of a ticket is acceptable.
Likewise, on the water, if conditions make it unlikely that I will meet death in a capsize, then I do not wear a vest. On the other hand, if water temps are very low, current treacherous, visibility poor, etc. then the vest is an acceptable (but uncomfortable) choice.
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### Author:  [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/58 "2010-08-14T13:56:58Z")
I’m with ya, **Kayaker**. I’ve done plenty of whitewatering on both yaks and ‘rafts’, and am a strong swimmer. The ClassIII vest was always with me, but only worn when I felt it necessary (like a few places in Hell’s Canyon, or [Murtaugh Stretch of Snake River](http://oregonkayaking.net/rivers/murtaugh/murtaugh.html), most of Salmon River etc). Most of my cohorts did the same other than those that were not as strong at swimming (and admitted it!). To ride my raft without a jacket, even upon flat water, you had to show me physically that you could jump/remain in the deepish/icy water and not freak out (keep the wits, so to speak). Jackets were mandatory when water went white, though.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/59 "2010-08-14T14:38:34Z")
^Gawd, that looks fun!!!
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### Author:  [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lesson-learned-the-hard-way-wear-a-life-vest/549973/60 "2010-08-14T15:50:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> ^Gawd, that looks fun!!!
Living in central/southern Idaho has its benefits (~Twin Falls/Ketchum) 🙂 To be able to work a regular 8hr-shift and then less than 1/2-hour later be splashing in best water(s) in nation - yeah, I miss it pretty bad nowadays. Bringing the boats to work was pretty standard even if we had not already planned something. Better to have 'em and not need 'em…
I know of a number of folks through ‘grapevine’ of rafting community that were killed by waters due to coldness when rafting (heart-attacks usually listed as cause-of-death, iirc). Lifejackets did nothing to save their life once they hit the water. Water temp _may_ have played a significant role in the American Falls incident (??) - I did not watch the video at one of the links. I’m guessing that it would be close to where a couple guys broke out of a jail (10 years or more ago?) and then tried to swim across the Snake/reservoir somewhere near Pocatello. Only one of the two made it across, and both were good swimmers (supposedly) I don’t remember much specific detail. If a person can’t handle cold water, its too close to a done-deal for Death to even be upon/within such water (in my fairly-experienced opinion).
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