# Let a Tragedy be a Tragedy, what are your thoughts on this statement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526 "2018-02-25T05:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/21 "2018-02-26T13:44:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And which words are theirs and which, ‘are put in their mouths’, determined exactly? Just got a feeling, maybe? > > Telling a young adult, they aren’t thinking for themselves, just parroting others, because YOU don’t like what they are saying is taking agency from survivors of a terrible trauma, who have a need and a right to express their truth. And to have it taken, as their truth. If ever there was something that, ‘Now is not the time for…’, this HAS to be it. How incredibly disrespectful! > > Tell us exactly, what indicators would are needed, to show they are sincere, and not pawns? Based on what, besides a disagreement with their view, makes them seem like they are simply being used? It’s an easy accusation to make. But a titch slimy, as with zero evidence, it casts serious disrespect, based on just a feeling! > > Unless you there is some certain way (there isn’t!) to determine if they are speaking their truth or parroting, this sentiment is simply a way to discredit them. Because you don’t like their view. > > It’s not even veiled. Literally everyone can clearly see that for the partisan politics it is. I suppose if the language they use starts sounding less impromptu and starts sounding like they are being coached. That might be a sign. I’d also call into question if suddenly these few kids from Florida can suddenly mobilize this massive rally in Washington DC, with banners, signs, and Hollywood celebrities, that might be a sign other groups are involved. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/22 "2018-02-26T13:49:42Z")
Stuff like this reminds me of the All in the Family episode where Archie meets Mike for the first time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWjrsx9cXg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWjrsx9cXg) Mike says, “I love this country too, and it’s because I do I protest when I think things are wrong.” The students have every right to voice their opinions (which I agree with, by the way), and do what they can to change things for the better. More power to 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/23 "2018-02-26T13:58:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > My only issue is I’d get a little nervous if national groups already involved in this issue start immediately swooping in to grab the kids and use them as their new spokespeople. [So NOW it is a problem when a national group takes victims of a tragedy and uses them for a political agenda?](https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_578d7530e4b0a0ae97c32d2c/amp) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/24 "2018-02-26T14:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I suppose… ‘Supposing’, with no evidence! You still speak to discredit them and their truth. Because you’re unconvinced on the signage, and sudden swell of like feeling amongst those most likely to be the next target? Or because you don’t like to hear what they are saying? Seems like petty and transparent, politicizing of a national tragedy by attempting to discredit traumatized victims of horrific violence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/25 "2018-02-26T15:34:34Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I suppose if the language they use starts sounding less impromptu and starts sounding like they are being coached. That might be a sign. > > I’d also call into question if suddenly these few kids from Florida can suddenly mobilize this massive rally in Washington DC, with banners, signs, and Hollywood celebrities, that might be a sign other groups are involved. That’s the second time you’ve made this accusation without giving an example, so how’s about backing up this claim? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/26 "2018-02-26T15:50:42Z")
The argument appears to be that we should stop using the bad thing that happens as an example of why we should try to prevent that bad thing from happening in the future. That’s a terrible argument. It’s actually the opposite of what we do for any other issue. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/27 "2018-02-26T15:51:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I suppose if the language they use starts sounding less impromptu and starts sounding like they are being coached. That might be a sign. > > I’d also call into question if suddenly these few kids from Florida can suddenly mobilize this massive rally in Washington DC, with banners, signs, and Hollywood celebrities, that might be a sign other groups are involved. So 18 year olds are too young to have informed opinions or organise a protest, but they are old enough to buy a semiautomatic rifle with a large magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/28 "2018-02-26T15:52:04Z")
> [@BloodStalk](#): > > … They are taking the side of maniacs that know it would be easier to commit crimes without armed civilians > > …if the second amendment wasn’t being attacked by heartless people to begin with. > > So yeah, how do you view this statment? IMO, the guy I was debating with proved himself to be an extremely delusional and ignorant individual. As others have said, he’s just as guilty of making it political, particularly with his descriptions of people who are trying to implement gun control, which are nothing less than trying to demonize his opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/29 "2018-02-26T16:02:21Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > So 18 year olds are too young to have informed opinions or organise a protest, but they are old enough to buy a semiautomatic rifle with a large magazine. Yep, Second Amendment rights, but no First Amendment rights. Does this means they can shoot someone else’s mouth off, but not their own? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/30 "2018-02-26T16:38:21Z")
It’s a ridiculous sentiment. Every tragedy should spur actions to avoid repeating that tragedy. When an airliner crashes, we investigate the cause and fix whatever caused the crash. When an earthquake causes casualties, we investigate the causes of the deaths and try to fix the things that killed - e.g. improve the building codes, inspect bridges, improve emergency responses, etc. When terrorists kill, we improve security. When there is an epidemic/pandemic, we pour money into developing a cure, improve screening procedures, educate the public about how to prevent the spread of the disease, etc. Why should our response to mass shootings be any different? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/31 "2018-02-26T16:40:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I suppose if the language they use starts sounding less impromptu and starts sounding like they are being coached. That might be a sign. > > I’d also call into question if suddenly these few kids from Florida can suddenly mobilize this massive rally in Washington DC, with banners, signs, and Hollywood celebrities, that might be a sign other groups are involved. A sign of what? Somehow these kids who have political aims aren’t supposed to coordinate with other people who have the resources to amplify their voices? What sort of nonsense is that? If some teenager who survived the shooting said, “Listen, these national groups are claiming I believe A, but I don’t believe that at all, I believe B,” then that’s a problem. But if that teenager says, “This issue is hugely important to me, and the NEA has offered to help organize a march in support of a solution to gun violence I agree with, so I’m working with them,” that is like 0% a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/32 "2018-02-26T16:41:09Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > It’s a ridiculous sentiment. Every tragedy should spur actions to avoid repeating that tragedy. When an airliner crashes, we investigate the cause and fix whatever caused the crash. When an earthquake causes casualties, we investigate the causes of the deaths and try to fix the things that killed - e.g. improve the building codes, inspect bridges, improve emergency responses, etc. When terrorists kill, we improve security. When there is an epidemic/pandemic, we pour money into developing a cure, improve screening procedures, educate the public about how to prevent the spread of the disease, etc. Why should our response to mass shootings be any different? I think there is a slight difference. An airplane crash investigation usually isn’t very politicized, or politicized at all. You don’t see half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Airbus control-stick cockpits!” and half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Boeing control-yoke cockpits!” ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/33 "2018-02-26T17:02:46Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I suppose if the language they use starts sounding less impromptu and starts sounding like they are being coached. That might be a sign. > > I’d also call into question if suddenly these few kids from Florida can suddenly mobilize this massive rally in Washington DC, with banners, signs, and Hollywood celebrities, that might be a sign other groups are involved. If you want to believe they’re being coached, you’re more likely to take their statements that way. I’ve heard the speeches. I’ve spent most of my adult life around teens and have listened to many, many hours of student speeches, and those speeches ring true to me. Sure, the kids may have had some feedback from parents, friends, etc., but that’s not someone putting words in their mouths. As for the massive rally, are you imagining that the only choices are the kids are doing it all themselves or someone is using them as puppets? I’d certainly HOPE the Florida teens are getting advice and help from adults. I’D have to, simply because I’ve never coordinated a massive rally in DC. The kids are spearheading this, and they’re doing it out of their passionate conviction. That’s ignited a spark in a lot of people who’re fed up with the status quo. Maybe it’s a sign of how effective they are that some people choose to believe it’s all fake. It’s so much easier to dismiss what we don’t want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/34 "2018-02-26T17:48:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think there is a slight difference. An airplane crash investigation usually isn’t very politicized, or politicized at all. You don’t see half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Airbus control-stick cockpits!” and half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Boeing control-yoke cockpits!” Sure, but if we were having a plane crash every other week you might see people marching with banners that said “We need better airplane safety”. And then there might be airline-rights advocates who complain that they are politicizing airplane crashes, airplanes just crash sometimes and there’s nothing we can do about it, the bodies are still warm and you all are complaining instead of mourning. The reason airplane crashes aren’t politicized is because we have an effective system of preventing airplane crashes that works. If one party constantly opposed that system and advocated for airplane freedom, then yeah, it would be politicized. Political controversies exist when there are disagreements about what should or could be done through collective action. When something happens and everyone agrees about what should or could be done, there’s no political controversy, instead we just go about doing what everyone agrees we should do. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/35 "2018-02-26T18:02:27Z")
“Let a tragedy be a tragedy” is another way to say “I don’t want to be arsed to do anything about keeping it from happening again, and certainly not to face the possibility that I might be partly responsible due to under-considered positions I have been used to holding, and anyway it’s once again somebody else’s tragedy and not mine.” In no way is any of that respectable. ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/36 "2018-02-26T18:42:00Z")
Should I continue to respond to this idiot or leave him? ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/37 "2018-02-26T18:45:54Z")
Moron said this: While I have not been there in person, but at least I am trying to respect the dead and not use their corpses as a platform for a forced and brainwashed political agenda. It’s 2018, we should grow up and learn that offensiveness is not something we should be policing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/38 "2018-02-26T18:46:20Z")
The idiot you refer to in the OP, I take it. You _could ask him if the students had a right to self-defense, and if so, what form it should have taken, and from whom they needed defending and why_. But I doubt you’d get very far. Sometimes you just have to grin vapidly and back away slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/39 "2018-02-26T18:51:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think there is a slight difference. An airplane crash investigation usually isn’t very politicized, or politicized at all. You don’t see half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Airbus control-stick cockpits!” and half of the country holding banners and shouting, “More Boeing control-yoke cockpits!” You know why you don’t? Because it’s not politicized! When there’s a crash, we send a government-funded team of researchers in, and they do taxpayer-funded science to determine how this particular use of equipment led to deaths, and they make recommendations for required training or screening of equipment operators, or recommendations for how to change the manufacture of the equipment to increase safety, and those recommendations have teeth. The lack of politicization isn’t from people not worrying about safety; it’s because nobody stands in the way of safety by complaining about their god-given right to fly planes. ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526/40 "2018-02-26T18:54:43Z")
Another response from said dumbass: Because politicians are supposed to find solutions, and the NRA… I haven’t heard ANYTHING from them, so I can’t make an argument there. I have heard way too much from the disrespectful victims who are too young to know what they are talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-a-tragedy-be-a-tragedy-what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-statement/809526.md?page=3)