# Let employer slide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743 "2012-01-26T16:03:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/21 "2012-01-26T18:56:46Z")
When I was hired as an independent contractor even though my job was a regular employee job, I eventually pointed this out, copy/pasting the rules from the DOL, etc. So I was allowed to be a true independent contractor and work from home. They laid me off a month later due to “lack of work”. I applied for unemployment anyway and they fought the claim. They lost. But I am still paying the stupid taxes they didn’t take out of my paycheck three years later and I hate it. I wouldn’t recommend being an ass as suggested above (I’ve got the state on the phone blargh give me money), but do not let the employer slide. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/22 "2012-01-26T19:31:32Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > In CA it is legal to fire an employee for no reason. But there are plenty of reasons that are not legal. I have already won a case for $200k and I’d be happy to PM the details. It was against a famous person in OC. He founded one of the largest companies in the area. I took many risks in pursuing this including threats on my life. Would a book about this be interesting? Wait a minute, you went through that and you still worked for a year on this ripoff job? Do you look for evil bosses or something? What are the whistleblower rules these days anyhow? Anyhow, after you get fired, I can see the local news having a field day with a reporter standing in front of a bunch of yachts talking about how their owner doesn’t pay his employees. Good ratings! ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/23 "2012-01-26T19:50:29Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > \ Would a book about this be interesting? No, not really. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/24 "2012-01-26T21:12:36Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Yes, employers can “force” you to put up with all kinds of crap, especially if you need the paycheck and fear losing your job. It’s called breaking the law. You are aware that courts are overflowing with cases where people have, in fact, broken the law, right? It happens. Wander over to the epic bazillion-page Workplace Griping thread in the Pit if you don’t believe me. > > Employers like this are why we have employment law, and employment lawyers. Actually, the reason is that we have shitty employers…and employees, who look for a windfall. Now I’m not saying that there aren’t times that an employer should be taken to the woodshed and have to write checks until it ruins their year, only that when an employee goes along with the treatment for a year and then sues for all that year, is not one of those times. I think the employee has a responsibility to fix the problem much, much earlier. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/25 "2012-01-26T21:16:23Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because the reply could be, “Here is your 15 hours worth of pay and you’re fired.” But that would be against the law. And THEN he’d have an actual case. You seem to think that he should be able to work under those conditions, thinking, “Hehe, I’ll do this for a year or two then sue him for what he owes me and MORE!!!” That’s someone gaming the system. Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/26 "2012-01-26T21:36:39Z")
[moderating] As **Ravenman** said, “This is a matter of opinion.” I’ve moved the thread to IMHO. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/27 "2012-01-26T22:40:19Z")
The law, as it is written, is a fact, not an opinion. Judges and juries interpret this law and determine if the case fits. Nobody would disagree in this case. I was not quoting the law, or asking for a legal interpretation by a judge. I was stating the facts of the case. If this is not a fact, than nothing is. Everything is an opinion! ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/28 "2012-01-26T22:40:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that would be against the law. And THEN he’d have an actual case. You seem to think that he should be able to work under those conditions, thinking, “Hehe, I’ll do this for a year or two then sue him for what he owes me and MORE!!!” That’s someone gaming the system. Fuck that. No, almost all states are right to work states, which should really be called “we can fire you at any time” states. Usually, the employee wouldn’t get fired right then, but next week. And that would be completely legal. There are umpteen stories, just on the SDMB, of people who have been unemployed for a year or two. I’m sure that there are reasons why some people can’t seem to find a job, but for most folks, it’s not really their fault that nobody is hiring. And some companies are willing to take advantage of this employer’s market to screw their employees over. So that’s gaming the system, too. And fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/29 "2012-01-26T23:15:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that would be against the law. And THEN he’d have an actual case. You seem to think that he should be able to work under those conditions, thinking, “Hehe, I’ll do this for a year or two then sue him for what he owes me and MORE!!!” That’s someone gaming the system. Fuck that. You are right. I forgot that because the employer doesn’t want to commit perjury then in open court he’ll confess to the illegal withholding of pay and firing the guy in retribution. And in this economy, there is no way a person actively looking for a job would take a year to find one. What was I thinking? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/30 "2012-01-27T09:04:16Z")
I work in H/R and first of all no two states are the same. Laws vary. California, for instance, has the laws most favorable to the employee. Places like Arkansas and Illinois are very unfavorable. The reasons being the South had fewer unions historically and places like Illinois were heavily unionized and so no laws protecting employees were really made, as those were covered by CBAs. This said, the OP should definitely look into this. Assuming this is in the USA, go to the website of your state labor department. You should find something called “Wages and Hours.” (or similar). Shoot them an email or fill out a form they will reply. They will tell you if you have a case and in most instances, collect back money. Trust me as an H/R director the last thing you want is an audit from wages and hours. I have no problem with anyone filing wages and hour complaints and/or suing employers. This is the only way they learn. I have often been asked by my higher ups to do unethical and illegal things. I refused. I realize not everyone will do this. In the end, unless you hit them in their pocketbook most employers will keep on doing it. Of course professionally I wouldn’t say this. I also understand feeling you have no choice. I work an absurd amount of hours. Often I’m here till 2am. But I realize jobs being what they are, and the fact if I quit, my next job would probably only pay me 60% of what I’m getting now. After all I have seen people in my company laid off. So working 70 hours is a pain, I’ll wear it till the economy perks up. I can tell you in Illinois, employers have to give you a lunch for every 6 hours worked. This lunch has to start, no later than 5.5 hours after your shift start. There is no law regarding other breaks in Illinois, generally. (Nurses and other healthcare workers and few others are covered by different standards in Illinois). The law only recognized “exempt” and “non-exempt” employees. The terms, manager, non-managers, salaried, wages, etc, don’t mean nothing in a legal world. They can mean something in your business though. And you can be mis-classified by an employer, so that bears checking into. All you can really do at this point is contact the wages and hours department of your state and see what they say. I urge everyone who has a question to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/31 "2012-01-27T17:02:05Z")
It’s a hard question when there are so many different consequences. But the biggest thing is that the longer you work for that company, the longer it’s going to hurt you “later”. IE: if they’re not giving you breaks it’s against the law in some states. If they don’t pay you ot over 40 or comp time, it’s against US labor laws (I think, check out the federal employee posters that are supposed to be hung in the employee area) But you have to make over a certain $$ amount for the tax/withholding to begin. Whether you report those two things is your call. However, as far as the taxes are concerned, eventually it will make it look like YOU haven’t paid enough taxes. Your income tax is reported on a W2. If you don’t have enough withholding Medicare and Income Tax, the company could be penalized but you too could be responsible. When and if you get to Social Security age (if there’s any $$ left for it in the US budget) your SSI benefits will be lower because your wages would’ve been higher if you’d been paid for ot. If this goes on for years, either with the same company or others, your benefit when you get retirement age will be reduced by quite a bit. It’s your future??? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/32 "2012-01-27T17:06:04Z")
You are going to be in a world of hurt come income tax time- or if you just don’t report, come audit time. He violated the law, and if you don’t turn him in, it will cost you a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/33 "2012-01-27T19:29:59Z")
> [@sbright33](#): > > The law, as it is written, is a fact, not an opinion. Judges and juries interpret this law and determine if the case fits. Nobody would disagree in this case. I was not quoting the law, or asking for a legal interpretation by a judge. I was stating the facts of the case. > > If this is not a fact, than nothing is. Everything is an opinion! You weren’t asking about the law. Your OP says: > [@sbright33](#): > > I worked for a company for a year. I was not allowed lunch breaks, never paid extra for overtime, and no taxes were taken from my paycheck even though I was a regular employee. I am familiar with that definition in my state. Should I pursue this or let it go? I am asking this in general, not my specific circumstances. It concerns all the employees at the company. The only question in there is “Should I pursue this or let it go?” There’s no factual GQ answer to that question. You’re asking other people whether they think you should pursue it. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/34 "2012-01-27T19:34:23Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > No, almost all states are right to work states, which should really be called “we can fire you at any time” states. If I may, the correct legal term is employed “At Will”. Montana is the only state which has abrogated this doctrine. By statute, the employee must pass thier probabtion period, but once done, any termination must be work related (for cause). From memory, I think only 1 or 2 states have thier at will status for employees by Statute, the others are ingrained in the common law. My state, Ohio, recognizes 2 exceptions absent the notable/more known ones as race/color. Promissory Estoppel and Public Policy. Many Southern states do not recognize a PP exception to at will employment though. Absent a specific time of employment, by contract, etc., the employment relationship is said to be “at will” and terminable with or without cause at any time by either party. One case I remember reading about an employee being discharged, he lost, was the court stated that the Employer has always ruled the workplace with an “Iron fist”. I only know of 2 cases in my studies where after being sued for wrongful termination the employer ADMITTED liability. One was an Ohio case that our SC established our PP exception. The employee’s check was garnished for child support. The employer fired him for it. Now, the law ONLY stated the employer be sanctioned by a lousy $500.00 fine, big deal. He sued for wrongful termination. Since the employer thought he has no case, they admitted to firing him for what he claimed. It backfired and the OSC ingrained our PP exception, so they outsmarteed themselves at a cost. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/35 "2012-01-27T20:50:30Z")
Report them to the IRS snitch line. You can receive up to 30% of recovered tax money: [Whistleblower Office | Internal Revenue Service](http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/36 "2012-01-27T21:06:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You are going to be in a world of hurt come income tax time- or if you just don’t report, come audit time. He violated the law, and if you don’t turn him in, it will cost you a lot more. This +1. You are on the hook for the taxes, and the IRS is not going to care that it is your employer’s fault. And they will charge you interest, and maybe penalties. I would start talking to your state labor department and the IRS yesterday. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/37 "2012-01-27T21:14:00Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > Report them to the IRS snitch line. You can receive up to 30% of recovered tax money: [Whistleblower Office | Internal Revenue Service](http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html) If I remember correctly, the IRS has never once paid out an actual whistleblower reward. Just sayin’. OP, your problem is that if they’ve got you listed as a contractor, you now are screwed into paying self employment tax. That sucks. You can petition the IRS to show you were an employee instead. You may want to do that. You need a lawyer or tax representative to handle this. ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/38 "2012-01-27T21:48:44Z")
I am familiar with this aspect of the situation. I’ve been thru it all before. Like I said it was a great job for awhile! Until it wasn’t. I would have done it for free. Which is about what they were paying me to watch a fleet of yachts and manage the boat cleaners. ---
**Author:** ![sbright33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@sbright33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbright33)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/39 "2012-01-27T21:51:09Z")
@Gary- I stated the facts. Most people accurately replied with relevant facts. The opinions on both sides are secondary to this. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743/40 "2012-01-27T22:49:41Z")
This subject is more fitted for IMHO than GQ, at least as laid out in the OP. If you have any factually answerable question, feel free to open a fresh topic in GQ. If you feel the burning need to discuss this further, open a thread in ATMB. - Gukumatz, IMHO Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-employer-slide/610743.md?page=3)