# Let he who is without sin cast the first stone---meaning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960 "2003-01-26T02:30:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mrcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@mrcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrcrow)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/21 "2003-01-27T12:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > \*\*This passage is widely regarded as being a later addition to ‘The Bible’ and not something that Jesus ever said. It doesn’t appear in any of the earlier manuscripts. \*\* exactly dont be taken away with truth and truths as being contra missive that this story was part of the original text of john’s gospel is disputed. no mention is made whether the woman or man were married whether she was a virgin or cried out. see leviticus 20:10 et al the man the man the man etc. and the woman in one case where was and who was the man see deuteronomy 17:7 the hands of the witnesses shall be the first… and afterwards all the people… put away this evil… 🙂 many stories in scripture were parable based they are teaching and not to be taken to be fact… good samaritan? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/22 "2003-01-27T16:10:11Z")
"who is without sin " Does that mean one who has been forgiven can throw stones? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/23 "2003-01-27T16:41:06Z")
Another vote against the historicity of the story is that part of it occurs when Jesus and the woman were alone. Who was there to witness what Jesus said? Well, the woman, sure, but again, using Occam’s razor, it seems more likely it was made up. Jack Miles in _Jesus_ points out that Jesus doesn’t look up during the proceeding - he looks at the floor (at his writing, I think). Miles says this showed a sense of modesty that would have been understood by readers at the time - the woman would have been brought in naked for her alleged crime. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/24 "2003-01-27T20:23:25Z")
After Jesus said it, Mary got up and threw the first stone. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/25 "2003-01-28T03:28:05Z")
**People that live in glass houses, should not be throwing stones**. When it comes to sin, we all live in a glass house. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/26 "2003-01-28T04:56:28Z")
I think it’s just barely possible that the basic pericope may have had some vague historical core, but the “go and sin no more” stuff is totally made up. Jesus didn’t say stuff like that. His ministry was very non-judgemental, and non-legalistic. This was confusing to the gospel writers and they had a tendency to attach little editorial explanations to the sayings of Jesus, sometimes even opting to put the words in Jesus’ mouth. Jesus probably only said about 20-25% of what’s attributed to him in the gospels and John is, by far, the least historical of the gospels ---
**Author:** ![Fifteen\_Iguana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Fifteen\_Iguana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fifteen_Iguana)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/27 "2003-01-28T05:30:35Z")
Another little suggestion I’ve heard is that Jesus wasn’t writing anything of sigificance in the dirt. He was just using the stick as an excuse to politely look away from the woman who was (at least) embarassed and (at worst) naked. Fifteen Iguana ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/28 "2003-01-28T13:33:20Z")
Ahem… has this drifted away from a GQ about the meaning of the phrase, and into a debate on biblical origins? **Lsura** and **kniz** pretty much answered as for content, **DAVEW0071** for context, _ **in the way that it is presented in the piece of literature that gives rise to the question** _. Question which was NOT “was this really said?”. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Roberto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Don\_Roberto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Roberto)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/29 "2003-01-30T04:07:49Z")
Does the Hebrew etymology of “sin” matter to the interpretation? IIRC, the Gospels were originally written in Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/30 "2003-01-30T05:14:22Z")
> [@](#): > > **Don Roberto** > Does the Hebrew etymology of “sin” matter to the interpretation? IIRC, the Gospels were originally written in Greek. The Greek doesn’t actually use a term for “sin.” Jesus says basically, “Whoever among you is [symbol]anamarthntos[/symbol let him throw the first stone.” [symbol]anamarthntos[/symbol] (anamartentos) means “unerring, unfailing, perfect.” So in other word, whoever is (morally) perfect should throw the first rock. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/31 "2003-01-30T05:17:24Z")
Man did I mess that up. What I _meant_ to say was, "whoever among you is [symbol]anamarthntos[/symbol], let him throw the first stone. Anamartentos means …you know the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Roberto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Don\_Roberto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Roberto)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/32 "2003-01-30T07:36:52Z")
Thanks, Diogenes. My point exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/33 "2003-01-30T11:49:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sampiro \* > \*\*I do not have a cite for this, but once upon a time I read that an alternate interpretation discovered of this verse reads “Let he who has not lain with this woman cast the first stone”. Has anybody else heard this? \*\* I think that was the South Park episode where they were looking for Cartman’s mom. ---
**Author:** ![JustDatGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JustDatGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustDatGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/34 "2011-03-01T01:57:41Z")
As previously noted, it obviously implies “judge not lest ye be judged” and “first remove the plank from your own eye” (clean yer own house, ya bum!), but it may have another meaning. _If_ Jesus did say “without sin”, rather than “perfect”, then _perhaps_ he was using sin’s orignial root meaning of “miss the target” intentionally in reference to those assembled, in order to illustrate another point: none of the assembled would have been able to hit the sin in the woman, rather than hitting the woman (hate the sin but love the sinner). Thus, not only would the stoning be wrong, but it would actually inherently be impossible for it to achieve the goal and, as that goal was to remove the missing of the mark from the woman, failing to do so was just compounding the failure, and demanding that the stoning take place was an even greater folly. The utter absurdity of it would then have implied, to anyone who had heard Jesus’ teachings, that the act, and the law which called for it, were pointless, and that the Pharisees, along with any who obeyed them, were fools. I suspect that any (learned) man there would have recognized the “miss the mark” reference, and likely strongly reacted _if_ they recognized the context being directly relevant; that sort of thing carries the weight of truth. Whether only Jesus’ disciples would have caught the “hate the sin” reference, or if others would have heard it too, is another question. This all assumes that he said “without sin”, of course. If he didn’t, then I’m missing the mark! 😉 Tho the Greek has it as “he who is perfect”, that was not written until hundreds of years later, and Jesus would probably not have been speaking Greek in discussing a matter of Jewish law that the Pharisees brought up, as it seems like it would have placed him in the position of outsider, and thus undermined his position. Does anyone know where “without sin” was first put as the translation, and why that wording was chosen? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/35 "2011-03-01T02:13:50Z")
“Sweet zombie Jesus!” - Futurama. ---
**Author:** ![Heyoka13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Heyoka13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heyoka13)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/36 "2011-03-01T02:18:01Z")
Only folks who believe in Jesus and are Saved by His death and resurrection are allowed to throw the stones. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/37 "2011-03-01T02:43:23Z")
Again, all of this is kind of moot as this passage is, even in the most conservative versions of the Bible, considered to be added later. Even in the NIV, a very popular Bible with fundamentalist protestants, it is noted that this story may not have been in the orgiinal book. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/38 "2011-03-01T02:46:23Z")
Yes, but they don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/39 "2011-03-01T02:47:55Z")
> [@Gjorp](#): > > When Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”… Wow I’m clean, that means I can go around hitting people with rocks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JustDatGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JustDatGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustDatGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960/40 "2011-03-01T03:04:32Z")
I was just advised (after decades of thinking otherwise) that “hate the sin but love the sinner” isn’t scriptural, so must excise that reference from my above post. It more or less invalidates the post unless one considers that the message may have been implied but never spoken, as Christ certainly hated sin but taught forgiveness. Still, a retraction is in order! Amazing the things one learns after a lifetime of believing them! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-he-who-is-without-sin-cast-the-first-stone-meaning/150960.md?page=3)