# Let it go, for Christs sake! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2001, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860 "2001-05-09T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/21 "2001-05-09T16:39:48Z")
Well, someone who starts a thread demanding that people who disagree with him “let go” and “get on with their lives”, then posts 5 or more times to it repeating the demand, has certainly exposed himself to some question as to who is having problems “letting go”, hasn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/22 "2001-05-09T16:45:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, why is it that the Electoral College is such a big issue now? It’s been in the Constitution for 200+ years now. All of the sudden, when the election doesn’t go the way it probably should have, everyone is crying about it. Actually, this couldn’t be more innacurate. There have been serious proposals in the U.S. Congress for over 200 years to modify the laws governing the workings of the Electoral College. I recently read a damned good magazine article delineating the various proposals and their fates. I’ll see if I can find it on-line and post a link for ya. I believe the article appeared in _American Heritage_. I don’t, however, know if they offer an on-line archive. Crap. It’s not available over the 'net. I’ll see if I can find some time to write a synopsis for ya. [http://www.americanheritage.com](http://www.americanheritage.com) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/23 "2001-05-09T16:58:24Z")
**Elvis** and **Minty** , I don’t, repeat don’t care about the election, or the results. I’m just venting a little spleen at the expense of those who do. If I’m persistent, it’s because I have nothing else to do today, and it’s a topic that has been bugging me for a long time. The link I provided was just the last straw. I’m really trying to stimulate a good conversation. **UncleBeer** , I’d appreciate that synopsis very much. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/24 "2001-05-09T17:20:32Z")
> [@](#): > > If I’m persistent, it’s because I have nothing else to do today, and it’s a topic that has been bugging me for a long time. In all fairness, the same things could probably be said about **Danalan** and **gorewonfla**. Are their revisionist sentiments childish and useless? You betcha. Are they pit-worthy? Well, I’ve seen far lamer grounds for pit rants. But at least hold _yourself_ to a higher standard than the people you’re ranting about! ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/25 "2001-05-09T19:19:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > I recently read a damned good magazine article delineating the various proposals and their fates. I’ll see if I can find it on-line and post a link for ya. I believe the article appeared in _American Heritage_. I don’t, however, know if they offer an on-line archive. > > Crap. It’s not available over the 'net. I’ll see if I can find some time to write a synopsis for ya. > [http://www.americanheritage.com](http://www.americanheritage.com) \*\* Interested parties might wish to check this out [http://erin.home.4t.com/ECollege.html](http://erin.home.4t.com/ECollege.html) ---
**Author:** ![Soccerbaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@Soccerbaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soccerbaby)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/26 "2001-05-09T20:25:00Z")
My feeling about the whole election isn’t really relevent because i didn’t get to vote being 16 and all, but having somewhat of a interest in what is going on in the country i listen to what Bush has tried to do. Now keeping this going isn’t really doing anything like other have said “let it go and move on”. This might sound odd for me to say but i didnt’ really like Clinton either but he did some good for the country, now give Bush a little time and maybe he can do some good as well, we can only wait and see what happens. Doors, i know your feelings about it, i heard it for weeks after the election but you have to live with what happened for the next four years and at that time maybe we can change it because i know that i’ll be able to vote and i’ll have my say! So even if your candidate didn’t win just move on and see what happens! ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/27 "2001-05-09T22:07:51Z")
Okay, it might take me a couple of days to get to it, but I’ll post it right here when I’m finished. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/28 "2001-05-10T06:27:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Oh, and while I’m thinking (a rare thing, I assure you), you might want to look at this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70155](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70155). > > It’s similar in import, if not in content. \*\* Wrong damn link. Oops. I thought I did that. It was bothering me all day. Here’s the right one: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70298](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70298) . It links to **Milo’s** thread. Now I’m happy. Embarrased, but happy. Oh, and **Soccerbaby** , you’re a loser. 😉 [sub]I CAN say that to my own sister, can’t I? :D[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/29 "2001-05-11T06:00:02Z")
So what made all you Republicans suddenly go ballistic about this sniping by the “sore loser” democrats? This is no different than the whining that Republicans had been doing throughout the Clinton administration, and in some cases are still continuing to do. You could start a thread on any political topic you like and some Republican would always try to interrupt the discussion by reminding us that WJC had sex with an intern/ sold secrets to the Chinese/ didn’t inhale. Well, in the case of the helping Chinese spies, it just an outright lie, since those of us who actually follow the news are aware that charges against Wen Ho Lee were dropped. In the other two cases, yeah he did, but so what. I grew really tired of Republicans trying to sidetrack real debates by raising these “issues” every ten seconds. Now suppose that Gore had become the president because the dems were able to trick a few people into punching the wrong hole. Don’t you think the Republicans would still be whining about it? ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/30 "2001-05-11T06:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > Yes we did. But the point I was making was that it is primarily due to the incompetence of the Florida voters. The election was won and lost in Florida. That one state ultimately was the deciding factor. Uh no. It was due to incompetent ballot design. > [@](#): > > How fucking hard is it to pay attention to what you’re doing? If you’re confused, ask for directions. And if you are misled by bad interface design, how do you know that that you need to ask for assistance? Blaming the victim is generally considered bad form in polite society. (which, admittedly the pit is not). Insisting that the USA stop talking about how the loser of the election ended up in the White House is NOT a way to insure that democracy survives. But hey, if you want to blame the victim instead of solving the problem, you go right on ahead. You picked the right place for it. tj ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/31 "2001-05-11T06:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by \*\*Airman Doors, USAF \*\* > > _Also, why is it that the Electoral College is such a big issue now? It’s been in the Constitution for 200+ years now. All of the sudden…_ According to the [National Archives](http://www.nara.gov/fedreg/elctcoll/faq.html#reforms) the Electoral College has been the subject of over 700 constitutional amendments proposed in Congress, more than any other issue. > [@](#): > > _One man, one vote does not work in this country. The smaller, more conservative states would be immediately placed in a disadvantageous situation. The larger, more progressive states would be in a position to assert their will._ I submit that the way to avoid having some states dominate others in a vote is to not let states vote. Under a popular vote no state would be in a position to assert anything since the states wouldn’t be voting. Many people are mislead into thinking that just because states with smaller populations receive disproportionate representation in the college that their residents have more of an effect on the outcome. This is untrue. Allow me to introduce you to the [Banzhaf Power Index](http://www.cs.unc.edu/~livingst/Banzhaf/). > [@](#): > > ## \*The Banzhaf Power Index was introduced by John F. Banzhaf III for the purpose of analyzing block voting systems, such as the U.S. Electoral College that elects the president. Banzhaf’s method and previous methods are based on probabilistic analysis of the individual voters in a block voting system. > > \*[T] \*he probability that a citizen voter will change the outcome of the election with his/her vote is… > …the probability that both the individual changes the block’s decision and the block’s votes change the election \* The states with more electoral votes have a greater chance of changing the outcome of the election, since all of those votes will be cast for a single candidate. If you scroll about halfway down that page you will find a chart showing just the chances a voter in each state had of changing the outcome of an election. The numbers are given proportional to that of the chances of the least powerful voters, which in 1990 lived in Wyoming. The top three are Californians, with over three times the effect of the Wyomingites, along with New Yorkers and Texans with over twice the power of Wyomingites. “Small” states are empowered, yes. But their voters still get fucked over. > [@](#): > > _Hell, look right here in Pennsylvania, where I live. Bush won virtually everywhere. Just not in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia._ No he didn’t. You don’t win anything in parts of states ( except in Nebraska and Maine ). You can only win the whole state. Bush **led** in more counties here in Pennsylvania than Gore did but you don’t win until the votes are counted. Gore received 204,840 more votes statewide and therefor won the electoral votes. I could link to the infamous county by county map to show that your claim that Bush lead in only Philly and da 'Burgh is a bit of an exaggeration but that might lead to complications. > [@](#): > > _What, you don’t like the Electoral College? Come up with a better idea._ There is no need to invent something new since the EC is inferior to a popular vote. * * * 2sense - PV Warrior ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/32 "2001-05-11T07:29:37Z")
Don’t forget that people aren’t just moaning about the Electoral College, which is a pretty dumb system in this day and age and is bound to cause frustration, but also about the numerous allegations of irregularities during the elections (some of them appear to have supporting evidence). They are being discussed in other forums on this site. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/33 "2001-05-11T12:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Also, why is it that the Electoral College is such a big issue now? It’s been in the Constitution for 200+ years now. All of the sudden, when the election doesn’t go the way it probably should have, everyone is crying about it. > > Actually, this couldn’t be more innacurate.\*\* Actually, it _could_ be more inaccurate. Nobody gives a rat’s hindquarters about _proposals_ to reform and/or abolish the Electoral Collge. Proposals have been made by serious thinkers, as you say, for two hundred years (as well by barely literate yahoos and Mussolinis _manque_ whose touchstone for democracy is that _they_ get all the power). Agreeing on the need for abolishing the Electoral College is trivial. Getting a consensus on what replaces it isn’t. Airman, you think that the whining of hardcore Goristas is annoying? Wait until the first election of the Electoral College is replaced, and the partisans of the losing candidates refuse to acknowledge that someone can be a “legitimate” President who got less than a majority or the vote…or won a runoff in which all but two candidates were excluded…or was chosen by the incoming _or_ the outgoing House… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860/34 "2001-05-11T15:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Proposals have been made by serious thinkers, as you say, for two hundred years (as well by barely literate yahoos and Mussolinis manque whose touchstone for democracy is that they get all the power). yes, stupid people, thinking they should be able to decide who should be their leader, not some random guys nobody ever heard of… How dare average americans assert their God given right to decide for themselves. we all know that only 51% of the population in these 11 states should decide California (55) Florida (27) Georgia (15) Illinois (21) Michigan (17) New Jersey (15) New York (31) North Carolina (15) Ohio (20) Pennsylvania (21) Texas (34) Total= 271, with only 270 needed to win tell me there is nothing wrong with that, and i’ll have a bridge to sell you… if you want to do your own calculations [http://www.nara.gov/fedreg/elctcoll/naracalc.html](http://www.nara.gov/fedreg/elctcoll/naracalc.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-it-go-for-christs-sake/64860.md?page=1)