# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/201 "2021-07-28T20:48:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Also Also Also Also, I don’t know if you know this, but most human beings are more complex than a single axis. It is entirely possible for someone to be liberal on some issues and conservative on others, so saying “everyone who disagrees with me is a conservative” makes no sense at all. Quoting for posterity since the fact that you, GIGO the bag of scrabble tiles, and others clearly do not believe this is the entire driver of this thread. I will return to it the next time we revisit “anyone who thinks that standardized tests might be something other than a racist plot is necessarily an antivaxxer” or similar heavy rotation greatest hits. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/202 "2021-07-28T20:50:09Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > I will return to it the next time we revisit “anyone who thinks that standardized tests might be something other than a racist plot is necessarily an antivaxxer” or similar heavy rotation greatest hits. I’m sure you will revisit it almost immediately, given your active imagination and willingness to make up any old lie about what other folks are saying. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/203 "2021-07-28T21:38:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t know if you know this, but most human beings are more complex than a single axis. It is entirely possible for someone to be liberal on some issues and conservative on others, so saying “everyone who disagrees with me is a conservative” makes no sense at all. Would you mind telling this to @k9bfriender and anyone else who accuses me of being a conservative? It gets tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/204 "2021-07-28T22:09:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > @octopus, are you a conservative, do you support Trump? Those aren’t the same thing. > [@DemonTree](#): > > liberal values like equality and individual liberty, private property and individual rights, limited constitutional government, pluralism, toleration, autonomy, bodily integrity and consent. Most of those at least used to be conservative values. Especially the bits about private property and limited government. Both conservatives and liberals claim individual liberty, individual rights, and autonomy; though they tend to do so on different issues. Both claim equality, though they don’t always mean the same thing by it. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/205 "2021-07-28T22:09:53Z")
I stopped posting here for something like eight years. The overwhelming majority of my posts were made before that. I’ve only been back posting here for month or two. The person having a go at me doesn’t know me from a bar of soap. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/206 "2021-07-28T22:15:18Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The idea that one view is _Correct_ and no others are, exclusion of and disinterest in other viewpoints, regimentation, rejection of the need for balance, and a view that a “hive mind for the truth” is a good thing. But eliminating modern American conservatives doesn’t leave you with one view, it just eliminates bullshit. They have nothing of substance to offer at this point and only muddy up any real discussion. I don’t advocate making this an official stance of this board, but losing what passes for conservatism these days isn’t making on Correct view. For example: > [@DemonTree](#): > > The horse has long left that stable, thanks to wild overuse by people of your political persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/207 "2021-07-28T22:24:53Z")
I’m hardly a great example of your thesis, being neither an American nor a conservative. It is not a narrow range of exteme views that would be excluded if people like the OP had their way, but a wide range of common ones. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/208 "2021-07-28T22:26:34Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I stopped posting here for something like eight years. The overwhelming majority of my posts were made before that. I’ve only been back posting here for month or two. The person having a go at me doesn’t know me from a bar of soap. He probably mistook you for Martin\_Hyde. I often mix up Dopers with similar names. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/209 "2021-07-28T22:30:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > > > The person having a go at me doesn’t know me from a bar of soap. > > He probably mistook you for Martin\_Hyde. I often mix up Dopers with similar names Who’s “the person having a go” at him? I saw a number of people who criticized some of what he had to say, but I didn’t see anyone “having a go”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/210 "2021-07-28T22:34:05Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Those aren’t the same thing. He can answer them separately, if he’s willing to answer at all. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Most of those at least used to be conservative values. Especially the bits about private property and limited government. Both conservatives and liberals claim individual liberty, individual rights, and autonomy; though they tend to do so on different issues. Both claim equality, though they don’t always mean the same thing by it. I got the list from Wikipedia. But I’m more interested in values than labels. I won’t be voting for left-wing parties or candidates that abandon liberal values. Maybe I’d be tempted to actually become a conservative, but they are not necessarily any better, and have other policies I object to. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/211 "2021-07-28T22:35:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Who’s “the person having a go” at him? I saw a number of people who criticized some of what he had to say, but I didn’t see anyone “having a go”. You’re kidding, right? There’s an entire _other thread_ full of people - including you - “having a go” at me, personally. In this case, I was referring to **The\_Librarian** , to whom I’ve never interacted previously as far as I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/212 "2021-07-28T22:37:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Who’s “the person having a go” at him? I saw a number of people who criticized some of what he had to say, but I didn’t see anyone “having a go”. @The_Librarian, judging from his earlier replies. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/213 "2021-07-28T22:41:52Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > But eliminating modern American conservatives doesn’t leave you with one view, it just eliminates bullshit. They have nothing of substance to offer at this point and only muddy up any real discussion. I’m going to start off by agreeing with this _as written_ before reiterating my problem with it _in practice._ I actually do read, or rather used to read, another forum that has an almost “anything goes” philosophy and lets people openly advocate, e.g., that some races are biologically inferior, and other extreme-right positions (along with extreme-left positions and everything else). It’s a disaster. There’s certain things that you just can’t allow without the board just being overtaken by them. That board doesn’t have a “free exchange of ideas” nor can it even sustain threads on topics that should have nothing to do with race or politics, because once you let people respond to every topic under the sun with “I guess the reason I can’t find an XBox for sale is our Jewish overlords are telling the blacks to steal them all” then the kind of people who find doing so amusing will do it thousands of times. As a result, whatever value I may have found in some older version of that forum is long gone. It’s totally unusable both because of the volume of extremist bullshit and the feedback loop formed by driving away people who don’t want to deal with that kind of thing. I have no problem with banning that kind of outright racism from this board if it wants to be healthy in the long term. What the people in this thread who do have a problem with the premise are trying to communicate is: We can’t allow a small, vocal faction of unreasonable, disingenuous, hard-left ideologues to define what is “racism” or “conservative” if we are going to ban “racism” or “conservatism” from the board. I’ll excerpt a [post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/253) I made in ATMB recently: > Things I have been called a racist for advocating on the board: > > \*It’s a good policy to forfeit high school football games to punish players for assaulting referees. > \*Children are better off when raised by two parents. > \*Cartoonists have a free speech right to draw images of Mohammed without being murdered. > \*The behavior of an Arab Muslim from Syria is not a good example of “white pathology.” > \*School boards in Virginia should follow the law governing magnet school admissions procedures. > \*Selective schools in general should not use race as a factor in admissions. > \*Advanced students should be able to take calculus in high school. > \*Certain decisions about the math curriculum made by the school board in Vancouver (a city with effectively 0 black residents) are not correct. > \*Medicare for All would increase wait times for care. The theme is: anything that dissents from a narrow window of views between Joseph Stalin and Bernie Sanders is conservative and racist, there is no reason anyone would hold said views without being conservative and racist, there is no need to engage the people who hold those views honestly since they’re all conservative and racist, and for good measure, stuff that doesn’t seem to have anything to do with politics at all like the football thread will also be taken over by people accusing those who disagree of being racist, because for some people that’s the only way they can express disagreement about anything. Again, you _can_ have a forum where about 90% of American opinion is banned, and you _can_ even claim, within that forum, to have at least two subfora dedicated to “good faith debate,” but what you can’t do is prevent the average person from seeing how silly that is or stop the effects it is continuing to have on the existence of a minimum viable population of board posters. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/214 "2021-07-28T22:42:42Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > > If one were to accept “fascist” as the sort of generic insult that might be thrown about willy-nilly for anyone who appears exclusionary of… anyone at all, then the word loses its meaning. And it’s clear to me now that it is a word that’s worth reserving and preserving as a label for actual fascists. > > The horse has long left that stable, thanks to wild overuse by people of your political persuasion. Oh, please. Leftists don’t throw “fascist” around with anything _near_ the willy-nilly joy that radical right-wingers scatter “socialism”. The radical right has been using that to mean “anything I don’t like” for the past ten years or so. I question whether one Republican in five could accurately define “socialism”, or explain how it differs from Communism or social democracy or anarchism. Or even capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/215 "2021-07-28T22:56:17Z")
So what? It’s still true, even if the other side misuse “socialist” even more egregiously. That’s hardly something to emulate. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/216 "2021-07-28T23:00:24Z")
You can say whatever you want and I can call you a douche whenever I want in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/217 "2021-07-28T23:01:44Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You’re kidding, right? There’s an entire _other thread_ full of people - including you - “having a go” at me, personally. So there is. I’d advise you to mute the thread and ignore them. Nothing productive comes from these pile-ons. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/218 "2021-07-28T23:08:06Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > I’ll excerpt a [post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/253) I made in ATMB recently: > > > Things I have been called a racist for advocating on the board: > > > > \*It’s a good policy to forfeit high school football games to punish players for assaulting referees. > > \*Children are better off when raised by two parents. > > \*Cartoonists have a free speech right to draw images of Mohammed without being murdered. > > \*The behavior of an Arab Muslim from Syria is not a good example of “white pathology.” > > \*School boards in Virginia should follow the law governing magnet school admissions procedures. > > \*Selective schools in general should not use race as a factor in admissions. > > \*Advanced students should be able to take calculus in high school. > > \*Certain decisions about the math curriculum made by the school board in Vancouver (a city with effectively 0 black residents) are not correct. > > \*Medicare for All would increase wait times for care. That’s a compelling and interesting list. It’s too bad that in that ATMB thread, you refused to provide a cite to any of those instances. Something’s tickling the back of my head that just maybe it didn’t happen exactly as you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/219 "2021-07-28T23:08:29Z")
I know you were being casually jerkish to whole groups of people. I do not need to know more. That little nugget shows me enough to know you for what you are. The incessant whining after you were called on it just confirms it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/220 "2021-07-28T23:12:48Z")
You just pissed me off with your self-important, entitled whining. Nothing you posted afterwards addresses the thing people called you out on. You do whine about being called out a lot though. Now I have fed you enough. Bye now [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=12)