# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2208 "2021-09-07T14:06:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What bullshit. I’m also not American and primarily read the BBC (and the Guardian) and I don’t have your stupidly warped impression of what getting rid of ICE would mean. Same. The BBC is one of my main news sources and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that. Perhaps I missed that story. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Abolishing ICE will be as effective as calls to abolish the police. It’s stupid on its face and will never happen. Which is why I don’t take the link Economist article seriously on this particular subject and refuse to be alarmist about the topic in general. > > Now, Reform ICE? Sure. Let’s talk about what that should look like. [You’re in luck.](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/07/biden-immigration-ice/) > [@](#): > > Biden, who on the campaign trail expressed remorse for the relatively high number of deportations that occurred under President Barack Obama, pledged to rein in and reform ICE, but not eliminate it. And to be fair, [there’s a real need to reform them](https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-08-25/ice-poised-for-reform-as-biden-nominee-heads-to-senate-for-confirmation-vote): > [@](#): > > Last fall, [dozens of women reported being subjected to unnecessary medical procedures](https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-09-18/ap-exclusive-more-migrant-women-say-they-didnt-ok-surgery) without their consent by a gynecologist contracted by ICE. In response, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro N. Mayorkas [announced plans to close](https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-05-20/ice-irwin-detention-center-georgia-immigrant-women-alleged-abuse) two ICE detention centers, including the Georgia facility where the medical accusations came to light. > > ICE has also faced allegations of abusive treatment of detainees, some of which was documented [in a 2020 investigation by The Times](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-18/california-police-immigration-detention-abuse), and of [the use of toxic industrial disinfectant](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-03-22/prison-company-violated-federal-pesticide-law-in-misuse-of-disinfectant-inside-immigration-detention-center) at a private, ICE-contracted detention center in California. More recently, detainees and advocates have accused the agency of failing to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in crowded immigration detention centers. ICE under Trump became a perfect example of what happens when you have a lot of power and limited accountability. That needs to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2209 "2021-09-07T14:16:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@QuickSilver](#): > > > > Now, Reform ICE? Sure. Let’s talk about what that should look like. > > [You’re in luck.](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/07/biden-immigration-ice/) Seems a reasonable approach to me. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2210 "2021-09-07T21:40:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What bullshit. I’m also not American and primarily read the BBC (and the Guardian) and I don’t have your stupidly warped impression of what getting rid of ICE would mean. 🙄 Another person changing my meaning by snipping. I immediately followed that up by saying I haven’t seen much in the media and got my impression from the SDMB. (And even that was probably seeing thread titles without necessarily reading them, since I wasn’t much interested in the subject.) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2211 "2021-09-07T21:49:00Z")
The real lesson here is that DT’s posts should never be snipped, so she can’t use this excuse to re-frame her statements. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2212 "2021-09-07T22:41:17Z")
It’s always amusing to me when someone proudly stands up and declares their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2213 "2021-09-07T22:47:32Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > The real lesson here is that DT’s posts should never be snipped, so she can’t use this excuse to re-frame her statements. I was assuming you simply misunderstood my post and didn’t intend to misrepresent me (I didn’t report it, by the way). But that seems increasingly less likely as you continue to insist on your wildly incorrect interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2214 "2021-09-07T22:51:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It’s always amusing to me when someone proudly stands up and declares their ignorance. I don’t think it’s something to be ashamed of. No one can know everything. I’d rather admit to ignorance and become informed than hide it and remain ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2215 "2021-09-07T23:04:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > it’s much better for you to look at the interviews for yourself than have me try to summarise them. True. Lee Fang says on that page that he spoke with 40 people; I see five interviews. They do show some diversity of opinion. Three of them seem in favor of the protests; only one seemed to me to be clearly explaining why. Without knowing what the other 35 people said, I’m still a bit unsure. > [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t think it’s something to be ashamed of. No one can know everything. I’d rather admit to ignorance and become informed than hide it and remain ignorant. Ignorance isn’t something to be ashamed of. But I try to stop myself from expressing firm opinions on things that I’m ignorant about. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2216 "2021-09-08T05:48:38Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Lee Fang says on that page that he spoke with 40 people; I see five interviews. They do show some diversity of opinion. Three of them seem in favor of the protests; only one seemed to me to be clearly explaining why. Without knowing what the other 35 people said, I’m still a bit unsure. I don’t know much about him. I doubt his intention was anything like as simple as ‘wanting to cast a bad light on BLM’, though. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Ignorance isn’t something to be ashamed of. But I try to stop myself from expressing firm opinions on things that I’m ignorant about. You’d have to know you were ignorant to avoid it. But I don’t think I have done that? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2217 "2021-09-08T06:48:26Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Another person changing my meaning by snipping. No, emphasizing the _particularly_ stupidly disingenuous part is not “changing meaning”. Since I am _obviously_ also here at the SDMB, _that_ commonality, that the rest of your post attempts to blame for your idiocy, is already dealt with - if you got that impression about abolishing ICE from here, then that’s _still_ your own stupidity, not the Dope. I emphasized the BBC part because you were so obviously _trying_ to intentionally leave the idea that you’re some innocent non-consumer of RW media, shaped _only_ by here and the Beeb. When your posting history and the sources you’ve used in the past show that to be a laughable lie. So I emphasized it so I could laugh at it. And in any case - any complaints about “snipping” are of course hollow on Discourse, with its wonderful “expand quote” caron. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2218 "2021-09-08T10:15:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It’s always amusing to me when someone proudly stands up and declares their ignorance. “What’s the use of having ignorance if you can’t show it?” - Lou Costello ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2219 "2021-09-08T11:05:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I emphasized the BBC part because you were so obviously _trying_ to intentionally leave the idea that you’re some innocent non-consumer of RW media, shaped _only_ by here and the Beeb. When your posting history and the sources you’ve used in the past show that to be a laughable lie. So I emphasized it so I could laugh at it. Does that mean anyone who consumes right-wing media is no longer innocent? 🤔 I don’t go to right-wing sites to read the news. I do read articles that sound interesting in eg the Times or Telegraph if I see them linked to, and that is influenced by what I see on social media like Twitter. With more controversial events I try to find local sources to avoid the spin. But I honestly don’t recall reading anything about the movement to abolish ICE in any media. I get an impression of what (US) progressives think from this website and from Twitter. There were a lot of threads about Trump’s terrible immigration rules, especially the family separation, and not knowing the difference between ICE and the Border Force I assumed they were related. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And in any case - any complaints about “snipping” are of course hollow on Discourse, with its wonderful “expand quote” caron. It’s still bad if done intentionally. But like I said, I assumed @Sunny_Daze had simply misunderstood, and that would be fine if she accepted it when I corrected her - but she didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2220 "2021-09-08T11:12:53Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Does that mean anyone who consumes right-wing media is no longer innocent? 🤔 Ponder no more, the answer is “yes”. Anyone who knowingly consumes right-wing media is not innocent. Also, stupid. As would be anyone who believes _this_ whopper: > [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t go to right-wing sites to read the news. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2221 "2021-09-08T11:47:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > As would be anyone who believes _this_ whopper: > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > I don’t go to right-wing sites to read the news. I guess what I have been reading is what’s sometimes called the ‘intellectual dark web’, not right-wing news sites. And in some ways I do think I was more innocent before. More innocent because more ignorant. But you can think what you like, I know you’re not interested in understanding. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2222 "2021-09-08T12:01:01Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I guess what I have been reading is what’s sometimes called the ‘intellectual dark web’, not right-wing news sites. Not news sites, still largely right-wing bullshit, as has been [covered here before](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intellectual-dark-web-stupidity-omnibus/827193). When Jordan Peterson is their leading “intellectual”, that says all you need to know about the IDW. > [@DemonTree](#): > > But you can think what you like, I know you’re not interested in understanding. You? Nothing _there_ to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2223 "2021-09-08T12:23:03Z")
It’s worth reading the right-wing media sites occasionally - not to be informed about what’s actually happening but to be informed about what a disturbingly large percentage of the population _believe_ is happening. One can often spot the dissemination of new approved narratives when specific phrases suddenly start simultaneously popping up everywhere both in writing and from the mouths of RW talking heads and politicians. This is particularly useful when the same phrases also start popping up (virtually verbatim) in posts here, as it’s a handy flag to distinguish hivemind activity from original thought. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2224 "2021-09-08T12:34:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s worth reading the right-wing media sites occasionally I would say “reading them occasionally” is not the same thing as “consuming them”, though. And really, you just have to read what the usual gang of idiots here post, and the articles they link to, to get a good sense of what’s happening there. For instance, I’ll take a bet that “illiberal” has been the word of the month on all those sites. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2225 "2021-09-08T12:36:48Z")
Before Biden/Afghanistan became the thing, it was “CCP”. It makes no sense, but then it rarely does. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2226 "2021-09-08T13:25:55Z")
“CCP” was Octo’s favorite word for a while there. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2227 "2021-09-08T14:49:36Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I guess what I have been reading is what’s sometimes called the ‘intellectual dark web’, Yeah, that tracks. The Intellectual Dark Web is a lot like the Holy Roman Empire: it isn’t actually intellectual, nor on the “dark web”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=112)