# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/221 "2021-07-28T23:19:44Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> You’re kidding, right? There’s an entire _other thread_ full of people - including you - “having a go” at me, personally.
Again, I wasn’t “having a go” at you. I criticized some of what you had to say.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/222 "2021-07-28T23:22:16Z")
Getting back to the thread topic: I agree with **ThelmaLou** , I don’t think the Dope objects to conservatives in 90% of the forums. Cafe, movies, games, sports, GQ - all good.
Even in politics, liberals are generally okay with conservatives if it’s a topic like national defense, energy, tax, etc.
It’s only on **sensitive** political topics - LGBT, feminism, BLM, CRT, Antifa, PC, Trump, etc. - that there is the real fight. Or flat-out denial, like Covid.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/223 "2021-07-28T23:29:31Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Even in politics, liberals are generally okay with conservatives if it’s a topic like national defense, energy, tax, etc.
>
> It’s only on **sensitive** political topics - LGBT, feminism, BLM, CRT, Antifa, PC, Trump, etc. - that there is the real fight. Or flat-out denial, like Covid.
You’re very close.
The difference isn’t whether the topic is “sensitive” or not.
The difference is whether there is actually a debate to be had based on different opinions about the most effective tax structure or the smartest way to deploy our military, or whether the debate is between acceptance of basic human rights (the first batch of issues you noted) or simple facts (Covid).
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### Author:  [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/224 "2021-07-28T23:30:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> I’m hardly a great example of your thesis, being neither an American nor a conservative.
Well, there i’s your tendency to pass on American conservative talking points. So, yeah. you’ll do.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/225 "2021-07-28T23:36:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> I’ve been on the record of taking the OP’s feet to the coals for using wide brushes before, but this time he added this important bit that you and @Princhester missed about what conservatives he was talking about:
I think they should be here provided they actually believe what they are debating. That’s as “good faith” as it needs to be in my opinion. Otherwise the OP is saying “we shouldn’t have arseholes”, and that’s fine, but that should include all arseholes, not just conservative ones.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> We can disagree on what the best methods of preventing COVID spread are, and what trade-offs are acceptable, but we don’t need to have an argument about whether COVID is actually a real threat.
If someone genuinely believes that COVID is not a real threat, or that they are comfortable with letting it run its course, then they should be allowed to debate their point of view.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> We can disagree on what kkind of social safety net is appropriate, but we don’t need to have an argument about whether the govt should have any responsibility towards its people.
If someone genuinely believes that the government does not owe the people anything, then they should be allowed to debate their point of view.
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> Stuff like that, in my opinion, is far more interesting when we can have a discussion among those who agree that there is a problem to be solved, and debate the best ways of solving it, rather than have turds dropped in that derail it and then it becomes a fight over whether the problem even exists or should be addressed.
Deal with the turds as they come (and they come from both sides), don’t decide prior to the fact that a certain group is likely to drop turds therefore they shouldn’t be allowed through the front door.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/226 "2021-07-28T23:50:05Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Puh-leeze. You fools who label anything and anyone to the right of Mao or Stalin as being fascist are the fools who make this board a toxic place.
Right on cue. _So_ predictable.
> [@](#):
>
> And, yes, the left and those who opposed the bad orange man were willing to ignore any inconvenient fact and spin it in such a way that the Ministry of Truth or Baghdad Bob would have been ashamed of.
We get it. The person who can do nothing more substantive than kneejerk “Left bad!” all over the place assumes that everyone else is as partisan and intellectually bankrupt as he is. Because only by projecting his own failings onto others can he avoid facing them in himself.
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Be more than a snark parrot. Try to come up with an original thought.
Says the person who parrots standard right-wing talking points non-stop.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/227 "2021-07-29T00:50:52Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> I stopped posting here for something like eight years. The overwhelming majority of my posts were made before that. I’ve only been back posting here for month or two. The person having a go at me doesn’t know me from a bar of soap.
Neither do I, and I also got the same vibe that **The\_Librarian** is responding to, just from reading your comments in the “Is This the Beginning of the End?” thread.
You know, for what it’s worth.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/228 "2021-07-29T01:31:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> There are always new sources and opinion writers out there. If it is necessary to see a conservative viewpoint, then those can always be cited.
But that isn’t quite the same as a real live interactive conservative who can respond to your arguments.
I think as an example of the usefulness of “conservative” thought on the message board I point to my experience as a mostly passive reader of the [J.K. Rowling trainwreck](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/13). in IMHO.
If this was a pure liberal board that some envision, Rowling’s view would have been introduced, if at all, in a pit thread with everyone saying that yes, Rowling was indeed a transphobic fuckwit. I would have read that thread thought, oh well that sucks, cause I kind of liked Harry Potter, and that would have been the end of it.
Instead, Demontree and monstro came in and stood against the tide and defended her argument. At that point I thought, hmm this is more complicated than I thought it appears to be a tussle in opposition between two liberal concerns, feminism and trans rights perhaps there is something to this idea afterall. Then everyone else came in raise a lot of very good points against it, and according to my perception, pretty much crushed it into the ground. This continued on for some time as opposing arguments were ignored, ad hominim attacks were made and strawmen erected and burned down, until it was finally put out if its misery.
But in the process I came away thinking that while Rowling may or may not have been a transphobic fuckwit herself, her argument against transmen, is flawed and transphobic, and here is why…
Now I have the advantage of being a cis male who can go to the bathroom where he wants to without anyone hassling him in any way, and so I could read that thread without feeling personally attacked or having my very identity called into question. I can appreciate that others might have viewed that thread as more threatening than I did.
But for my part, I found it useful and informative, and it if anything strengthened my liberal opinions and understanding on trans rights in a way that wouldn’t have happened if there was no other side.
There have been a few threads where liberals try to explore conservative thought with other liberals, but they generally don’t go anywhere. They either devolve into a alternative Stupid Republican of the day, or in the case of “Help me convince my conservative uncle to accept the reality that…” are resolved with a very simple “You can’t”.
I myself have started a [couple](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trump-gaetz-and-the-like-being-selectively-prosecuted-and-if-so-is-that-a-bad-thing/943116/18) of [threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-use-of-the-atlanta-shooting-to-highlight-increased-violence-to-asians/938253/49) where I tentatively explore certain conservative talking points that I find convincing, but again its difficult to go to far in the discussion because I am conflicted about them myself and so can’t really effectively defend them.
To put it another way, I want there to be conservatives on this board so that I don’t have to be one.
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### Author:  [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/229 "2021-07-29T01:49:47Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#):
>
> Nope. It is true that fascists do that. It is not true that only fascists do it.
Your comment is self-defeating.
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/230 "2021-07-29T01:54:46Z")
Compared to the billion threads where orange man bad!!11! was brought up every other post my pointing out the existence of an unthinking programmed hive mind is somehow the problem? Reflect upon your own dysfunctional mind before you claim others are projecting.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/231 "2021-07-29T02:13:27Z")
> [@Princhester](#):
>
> > [@thorny\_locust](#):
> >
> > Nope. It is true that fascists do that. It is not true that only fascists do it.
>
> Your comment is self-defeating.
Your answer makes no sense.
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Compared to the billion threads where orange man bad!!11! was brought up every other post my pointing out the existence of an unthinking programmed hive mind is somehow the problem?
The orange man exists.
The hive mind doesn’t.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/232 "2021-07-29T02:21:21Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Compared to the billion threads where orange man bad!!11! was brought up every other post my pointing out the existence of an unthinking programmed hive mind is somehow the problem? Reflect upon your own dysfunctional mind before you claim others are projecting.
9 brains, and you still can’t figure out how you were owned.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/233 "2021-07-29T02:30:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> I think they should be here provided they actually believe what they are debating. That’s as “good faith” as it needs to be in my opinion. Otherwise the OP is saying “we shouldn’t have arseholes”, and that’s fine, but that should include all arseholes, not just conservative ones.
Still looks as if you are ignoring what I like to do too, I did check what extreme conservatives are pushing; unfortunately, many times I find that they are having bad opinions, and then they show up as arseholes when they run out of good support for their opinions.
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### Author:  [@Chatterbox1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chatterbox1)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/234 "2021-07-29T04:12:26Z")
Oops. Nm
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/235 "2021-07-29T05:44:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> > [@octopus](#):
> >
> > Compared to the billion threads where orange man bad!!11! was brought up every other post my pointing out the existence of an unthinking programmed hive mind is somehow the problem? Reflect upon your own dysfunctional mind before you claim others are projecting.
>
> 9 brains, and you still can’t figure out how you were owned.
Of course, eight of those are technically “mini-brains” located in the arms, and their sole purpose is to troll for prey. The central brain in this case seems to have atrophied from disuse due to excessive exposure to Fox News and Newsmax. So really, what you have there is eight mini-brains dedicated to trolling and not much else.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/236 "2021-07-29T07:02:39Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> I stopped posting here for something like eight years. The overwhelming majority of my posts were made before that. I’ve only been back posting here for month or two.
Except for 2017 and 2018…
I, for one, did _not_ miss you.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/237 "2021-07-29T09:45:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> There is indeed no need for false “balance” if one side is clearly true and the other is not; we don’t need Flat Earthers or 9/11 Truthers here, for instance.
Nobody needs anything (even oxygen, if we are careful to define ‘need’).
This board doesn’t need flat earthers for balance, it needs them because that’s where the ignorance is. The motto of the board is ‘fighting ignorance’ not ‘closing the door on ignorance’
Behaviours should be moderated; beliefs, assertions, opinons, etc can be _debated_. Sure, you might not win the argument, even if you are objectively correct, if the opponent is stubborn and ignorant enough, but if you push them out of the door, you don’t really win that way either.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/238 "2021-07-29T10:00:33Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> But for my part, I found it useful and informative, and it if anything strengthened my liberal opinions and understanding on trans rights in a way that wouldn’t have happened if there was no other side.
To be honest that thread could have been ended a lot earlier. Much of it was people coming in and asking questions or saying things that had already been said, which is understandable with a thread of that length, but everyone was just repeating themselves. Still, it was very useful in helping me clarify my own ideas. My takeaway on rights was that a few areas are a real issue - prisons, sports, shelters - and others like bathrooms really aren’t. But the main thing I learned from doing research for that thread was how little evidence there is for current standards of care, and how ill-informed even supposedly smart, knowledgeable people are on the subject. People will confidently tell you desistance is a myth, that no one is doing surgery on minors, and that everyone is fully assessed and diagnosed before being given hormones, and it’s all untrue. Since that thread was closed, clinics in several countries including the UK have adopted a much more cautious approach to childhood transition (too cautious, IMO, but hopefully with time and more evidence they can find the best path).
It’s unfortunate that the US only has two sides who IMO are both promoting an unreasonable, absolutist view - either kids and teens should be able to make life-altering decisions on medical treatment without proper assessment from a medical professional, and with no consideration of differential diagnoses, despite the obvious potential for harm and the lack of evidence that this will benefit them. Or childhood transition should be completely banned, even for those where there is good evidence and when all parties involved agree it is the best treatment.
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> There have been a few threads where liberals try to explore conservative thought with other liberals, but they generally don’t go anywhere. They either devolve into a alternative Stupid Republican of the day, or in the case of “Help me convince my conservative uncle to accept the reality that…” are resolved with a very simple “You can’t”.
I find those threads immensely frustrating. If we can’t get actual conservatives on the board to participate in them, it would be far better not to bother. Having left-wingers give their idea of what conservatives are thinking is not fighting ignorance, it just serves to reinforce preconceived ideas and worsen the bubble effect.
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> I myself have started a [couple](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-trump-gaetz-and-the-like-being-selectively-prosecuted-and-if-so-is-that-a-bad-thing/943116/18) of [threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democrats-use-of-the-atlanta-shooting-to-highlight-increased-violence-to-asians/938253/49) where I tentatively explore certain conservative talking points that I find convincing, but again its difficult to go to far in the discussion because I am conflicted about them myself and so can’t really effectively defend them.
>
> To put it another way, I want there to be conservatives on this board so that I don’t have to be one.
Me too. I want to see a real debate with these ideas properly defended, because until that happens I can’t honestly dismiss them.
---
### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/239 "2021-07-29T10:57:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#):
>
> > [@thorny\_locust](#):
> >
> > Nope. It is true that fascists do that. It is not true that only fascists do it.
>
> Your comment is self-defeating.
The important point here is that wanting an institution to become a hivemind that adopts one’s opinions to the exclusion of all others is not bad because it is fascistic thinking. Rather it is bad in itself, and fascism is bad because it includes such positions.
Maybe you can both agree on that?
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/240 "2021-07-29T12:28:13Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Compared to the billion threads where orange man bad!!11! was brought up every other post my pointing out the existence of an unthinking programmed hive mind is somehow the problem? Reflect upon your own dysfunctional mind before you claim others are projecting.
And now you’re projecting your projection AND once again blaming others for your own failings. You really will do anything to dodge accountability for your own actions.
Once upon a time you were a constructive contributor to this messageboard. Now you’re just running on spite and cheap potshots. I genuinely don’t see why you’re here if all you’re going to do is scream “Left bad! Woke! PC! Persecution!” with the occasional longer but still factually-challenged post. What do you get out of it? Do you actually believe you’re challenging the “hivemind” you claim we are?
Because we’re not a hivemind and the only thing you’re persuading us of with this approach is that you - and by unfortunate association your fellow right-wingers - are “exceedingly dishonest” and unable to formulate coherent arguments. I’m not going to suggest you leave (heaven forfend I be accused of driving away another conservative voice) but I will politely recommend pursuing a little more self-awareness than you currently demonstrate, and considering what realistically it is you really want here.
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