# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 138
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2751 "2021-11-03T16:06:22Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > But coming out repeatedly against CRT (which is what Biden did with Defund the Police) is 100% the right move. > > Why not come out against widespread GOP pedophilia and cannibalism? These are much more explosive topics also that don’t exist. > > It’s such a great move to deny, refute and legitimize stuff someone else made up. I’m going to counsel you to resume taking whatever medication you stopped taking when you wrote this post. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2752 "2021-11-03T16:07:40Z")
[quote=“Martin\_Hyde, post:2751, topic:947474”] > [@drad\_dog](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > > But coming out repeatedly against CRT (which is what Biden did with Defund the Police) is 100% the right move. > > > [/quote] > > > > > > Why not come out against widespread GOP pedophilia and cannibalism? These are much more explosive topics also that don’t exist. > > > > > > It’s such a great move to deny, refute and legitimize stuff someone else made up. > > I’m going to counsel you to resume taking whatever medication you stopped taking when you wrote this post What’s the difference between Republicans coming out against things that don’t exist and Democrats doing the same? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2753 "2021-11-03T16:08:23Z")
If CRT doesn’t exist like antifa doesn’t exist how come it needs funding? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2754 "2021-11-03T16:08:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Most people don’t like their children being indoctrinated with the racist ideology of the far left. - They much prefer the racist ideology of the Right. Not the Far Right, the entire Right. Which, unlike the racist ideology of the Far Left, actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2755 "2021-11-03T16:09:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If CRT doesn’t exist like antifa doesn’t exist how come it needs funding? Everyone knows that CRT funding is just what they put on the invoice to cover up the fact that they’re buying chemicals to put in the water and make the frogs gay ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2756 "2021-11-03T16:11:04Z")
Waving away reality again. Under Fox/Con information systems the med/drug thing counts as brilliant rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2757 "2021-11-03T16:14:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > They much prefer the racist ideology of the Right. Not the Far Right, the entire Right. Which, unlike the racist ideology of the Far Left, actually exists. Like I said, you all believe your own propaganda. The schism on the left is widening and you fools don’t realize how destructive the racist progressives really are. You have NYT columnists writing books called “Woke Racism.” C’mon man, the battle is real and I’m not sure if the progressives even with their unholy ability to rally online mobs to cow spineless corporations and sycophantic academics are going to be able to gaslight the moderate left and the right. > [@Babale](#): > > Everyone knows that CRT funding is just what they put on the invoice to cover up the fact that they’re buying chemicals to put in the water and make the frogs gay Seems plausible. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2758 "2021-11-03T16:15:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > But coming out repeatedly against CRT What does that even mean? What is “CRT”? I know what is meant by Critical Race Theory as a technical approach in jurisprudence, examining ways that systemic racism can influence judicial outcomes. That is a perfectly reasonable subject of study for specialist legal scholars, and there is absolutely zero reason that any Democratic politician or anybody else needs to “come out against” it. If by “CRT” you mean some Republican-paranoia boogeyman like “teaching schoolchildren to hate all white people”, ISTM that devoting airspace to “coming out against” such ridiculous allegations is pointless and counterproductive. Of course opposition to racial hatred of all kinds should continue to be a feature of standard Democratic position statements, but rebutting Republican paranoid conspiracy theories one by one is just letting them dictate the debate. (Again, why aren’t rational conservatives the ones calling out Republican paranoid conspiracy theories? Why are you ex-Republicans just sitting around places like this to Monday-morning-quarterback Democratic strategies, instead of making your voices heard in conservative circles to counter hysterical Republican propaganda? Oh, that’s right, because conservative circles don’t have rational critical thinking proponents anymore and all you’ll get out of it will be death threats.) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2759 "2021-11-03T16:16:03Z")
CRT is used at post graduate and law school level to study the humanities and the legal meanings thereof. It isn’t part of public school curricula. So it is lying propaganda to say it is. Refute this. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2760 "2021-11-03T16:19:53Z")
To everyone insisting that Republicans repeatedly come out to vote against made up issues that don’t exists, I have a question… Why don’t Democrats come out to vote for real issues that do exist? By this I mean, why such a tepid voter response from moderates and Democrats in the face of the lies being pushed by Republican propagandists and politicians who endorse them? > [@drad\_dog](#): > > CRT is used at post graduate and law school level to study the humanities and the legal meanings thereof. > > It isn’t part of public school curricula. So it is lying propaganda to say it is. > > Refute this. Here you go: > **[We Need to Teach the Truth About Systemic Racism, Say Educators | NEA](https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/we-need-teach-truth-about-systemic-racism-say-educators)** > > Despite a legislative push to ban critical race theory, educators are committed to helping students examine the systems in which we all work and live, and help build a better future for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2761 "2021-11-03T16:20:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Nothing the GOP does today is remotely novel in politics. This is propaganda. The GOP is radicalized. Newt, Teaparty led to this. Now it’s Merrick Garland, orangina, Jan 6th, and CRT. They are exploiting the tradition of civility in the professional political class. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2762 "2021-11-03T16:20:46Z")
Because there are plenty of hateful liars like you. The truth is more complicated, and the lies that you spew are easy to digest. It is entirely the fault of hateful pieces of shit like yourself that the people are poorly informed, because you spew hate and lies, and people believe them. Mark Twain\* had a quote to that effect, " _A lie_ travels _around the globe_ while the _truth_ is _putting_ on _its shoes_" It is easier to dish out the gallop then it is to respond to _all_ the lies that you spew, and for the less informed and engaged, that comes across as more authoritative, more _confident_ in what you are saying. So yeah, even though everything you have said in these posts is entirely a lie, that you repeat them enough makes people believe them, and vote based on those lies. Are you proud of the effect that people of your ilk have, misinforming the populace, destroying democracy? Do you do it because you actually have an agenda, or do you just hate your fellow countrymen that much? Are you proud of your lies, and how they damage our country? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2763 "2021-11-03T16:21:58Z")
I don’t know why this is so hard for liberals to grasp: “Critical Race Theory” is the buzzword that is being used to describe trainings about white privilege and “Whiteness” as well as a host of other diversity and inclusion topics. It’s a real thing. There are people that don’t like it. When you keep saying it doesn’t exist, and then people go and learn (from Tucker Carlson if they’re psychotic, or from, like, the Atlantic or whatever if they’re less so) that in fact, the things they heard existed _do_ exist, you have a political problem. I don’t really attribute this failure to the party leadership, because I think it works well enough for them. But all the people dancing to this beat out here in social media land, I don’t understand. > [@JohnT](#): > > I’m really interested in what happened the week of September 6th, 2020… was it a Russ Douthat column in the NYT? Ben Shapiro on Facebook? Somebody started this fake shit, it’s purposeful, and it’s having the intended result. Easy answer to that: > **[Trump Tells Agencies To End Trainings On 'White Privilege' And 'Critical Race...](https://www.npr.org/2020/09/05/910053496/trump-tells-agencies-to-end-trainings-on-white-privilege-and-critical-race-theor)** > > The director of the Office of Management and Budget told agency heads on Friday that such trainings were "divisive" and "anti-American." Again, it’s a problem for the argument that none of this exists that there was funding for actual trainings that was cut as a result. Those things they cut the funding for, that’s what they’re all mad about. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2764 "2021-11-03T16:21:58Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > You cannot **pay a $350,000 invoice marked “critical race theory training”,** as the Loudoun County school board did, and then put forward the _intentional, knowing, lie_ that “critical race theory is not taught in public schools.” Sure you can. Teachers get all sorts of training, in all sorts of things, without going on to teach those things to their students. Teachers don’t teach curriculum planning in public schools, but they certainly train on it. I guess there was no lie there after all. And if you or anyone else is upset about a school district spending $3,500 for professional development centered around a particular “liberal” topic, you have no concept about what kind of indoctrination or sea change of policy you can buy for $3,500. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2765 "2021-11-03T16:24:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > But coming out repeatedly against CRT > > What does that even mean? What is “CRT”? I know what is meant by Critical Race Theory as a technical approach in jurisprudence, examining ways that systemic racism can influence judicial outcomes. That is a perfectly reasonable subject of study for specialist legal scholars, and there is absolutely zero reason that any Democratic politician or anybody else needs to “come out against” it. CRT is a political issue that should be primarily understood in that context. It’s an assertion that white people are being discriminated against by the school system. When Democrats ignore it, they’re saying they don’t care. When they just say “oh that’s not real”, they are functionally ignoring it. Since Democrats don’t and shouldn’t actually support white people being discriminated against in school, they should just say they’re against it. It isn’t complicated, and it does no harm to the party. The fact that it’s not a real issue in the real world has almost nothing to do with politics. > [@](#): > > If by “CRT” you mean some Republican-paranoia boogeyman like “teaching schoolchildren to hate all white people”, ISTM that devoting airspace to “coming out against” such ridiculous allegations is pointless and counterproductive. Of course opposition to racial hatred of all kinds should continue to be a feature of standard Democratic position statements, but rebutting Republican paranoid conspiracy theories one by one is just letting them dictate the debate. There’s a great scene in the Wire: [You want it to be one way. - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY) What’s going on here is the young man is Marlo Stanfield, a brutal drug gang leader. The security guard watched him steal a sucker, and went outside to confront him. The security guard wants to be able to confront him based on his “sense of right and wrong”, but without taking offense to his honor. Marlo is letting him know–yeah it isn’t like that, you stepped up on me, there’s going to be consequences. Marlo has the security guard brutally murdered a few weeks later. I think of this scene often when reading things from liberals like you. I can assure you–you can want things to be a certain way all you want, but that just will never happen. Politics is dirty and means fighting dirty fights. > [@](#): > > (Again, why aren’t rational conservatives the ones calling out Republican paranoid conspiracy theories? Why are you ex-Republicans just sitting around places like this to Monday-morning-quarterback Democratic strategies, instead of making your voices heard in conservative circles to counter hysterical Republican propaganda? Oh, that’s right, because conservative circles don’t have rational critical thinking proponents anymore and all you’ll get out of it will be death threats.) I don’t have to talk about all things at all times. I’m talking about Democratic electoral strategy at the moment. I also don’t think there’s a ton of personal interest I have in typing up repeated posts about fake things Republicans believe in. What is the point? Most hardcore Republicans would never read this forum, and the few that do are as immune to persuasion and logic as a brick wall (see Sam Stone for example.) I find this line of discussion more interesting than being the 500,000th person to say “omg the Republicans so dumb.” Like you know that gathering @RickJay alluded to where a group of crazy Q people thought JFK Jr (who was secretly still alive) was going to come out of hiding to anoint Trump? That isn’t even the craziest part–they also believe JFK **Sr** was going to “come back from the dead”, live on earth for 7 days, and at the culmination, empower Trump with the “power” JFK had, making him one of the “7 Kings” (possibly, but not certainly, in Q’s words, the “King of Kings.”) Yeah let me spend time and serious energy fighting against that…instead of just recognizing that mentally ill people doing mentally ill things isn’t something I can argue them out of. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2766 "2021-11-03T16:24:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You guys that are just saying Democrats should put their head in the sand and ignore the issue just aren’t being realistic. The Democrats **should not** spend a lot of time arguing about what is, or isn’t, being taught in schools–factual debates where you have to explain yourself are **losers.** But coming out repeatedly against CRT (which is what Biden did with Defund the Police) is 100% the right move. Then you shift to attacking the Republicans where they are always soft on education–say the GOP is going to gut local school funding, is going to pauper public schools to fund private schools etc etc. > > Honestly the response by a lot of you is why I don’t really have much hope for your party–and because I’m in permanent protest of my former party and am locked into voting Democrat for likely the rest of my life, that’s unfortunate because I do want to see the GOP lose (much more than I want to see Democrats win.) Guys politics isn’t about fighting on the ground you want or fighting fair. I don’t care that there might be some high level defense of CRT, it’s not popular, and it isn’t important–shit on it, counter attack, and move on. You are confirming the very point I made - that the Democrats should just concede the point whenever Republicans roll out yet another fearmongering campaign about something benign. The alternative, of course, is for the Democrats to adopt the same tactics and engage in vast smear campaigns of their own. Unfortunately this will then drive away or de-energize a lot of their base. The Democrats are hobbled by trying to at least maintain some tenuous connection to reality - and to democracy and the rule of law - rather than simply making shit up constantly and actively cheating. It’s an unfortunate truth. And they will always be the underdogs because of it, unless Republicans are somehow held accountable for their actions. And because GOP tactics work to give them sufficient control of the mechanisms of accountability to severely cripple them, this is unlikely to happen. > [@octopus](#): > > we all know Translation: “the far-right media that I believe unquestioningly and parrot verbatim says”. Bzzt! > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What seems to me to be a relic of the Clinton era is that politicians on the left are afraid to run bold, issues based campaigns because they’re afraid of offending portions of their own party. And yet when they run “bold, issues-based campaigns”, we’re told that they’re too extreme, that they’re hurting America, that they’re out of touch with what middle America really want. Whatever the Democrats do, we will always be told by helpful conservatives that they should have done something else: they picked the wrong candidate (who, no matter who it is, is always “too liberal”), or they should have talked more about X or less about Y (sometimes even when they **did** talk about X - for example, we were told over and over that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats should have spent more time talking about “jobs” and less about identity politics, even though the topic she talked about most was jobs and the whole “the Democrats only care about identity politics” thing was and remains a right-wing fabrication), or they should have had more popular policies (even though Democratic policies, viewed outside party affiliation, tend to be far more popular than Republican ones). Because this: > [@Gyrate](#): > > Why is it that our board conservatives so rarely take the view that maybe the Republicans should - instead of relying on voter suppression and smear campaigns to win elections - actually promote policies that a majority of Americans want? Is it because voter suppression and smear campaigns work - and that a wide majority of conservatives are fine with that? And this “afraid of offending” thing? It’s less what the Democrats are actually like and more part of the Republican misrepresentation of what Democrats are like, like **octopus** ’s weird claims about CRT, identity politics and gender. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I don’t know why this is so hard for liberals to grasp: “Critical Race Theory” is the buzzword that is being used to describe trainings about white privilege and “Whiteness” as well as a host of other diversity and inclusion topics. It’s a real thing. There are people that don’t like it. When you keep saying it doesn’t exist, and then people go and learn (from Tucker Carlson if they’re psychotic, or from, like, the Atlantic or whatever if they’re less so) that in fact, the things they heard existed _do_ exist, you have a political problem. Critical Race Theory exists. The CRT strawman that Republicans keep talking about, doesn’t really. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2767 "2021-11-03T16:25:19Z")
Your post just confirms why Democrats lose elections, little more. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2768 "2021-11-03T16:25:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > CRT is a political issue that should be primarily understood in that context. It’s an assertion that white people are being discriminated against by the school system. When Democrats ignore it, they’re saying they don’t care. When they just say “oh that’s not real”, they are functionally ignoring it. Since Democrats don’t and shouldn’t actually support white people being discriminated against in school, they should just say they’re against it. It isn’t complicated, and it does no harm to the party. The fact that it’s not a real issue in the real world has almost nothing to do with politics. Here’s the problem. “Slavery existed” is what is being described as “discrimination against white people”. If we come out against teaching that slavery existed, do you think that’d turn out well? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2769 "2021-11-03T16:25:54Z")
What is the alternative to teaching students the “truth about systemic racism”? Repression and propaganda? Do you really expect an educational system teaching history to ignore racism in US history? Do you think you can separate the history of slavery for instance, from racism? Anyway American history does not = CRT. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2770 "2021-11-03T16:26:03Z")
You don’t have to change curriculum to denounce CRT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=137) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=139)