# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 149
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2971 "2021-11-08T03:32:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do YOU think children in grade 2 should be propagandized like this? Making up pledge cards with their pledge to fight for a political cause, then affirming it in front of the other kids? In grade 2? Again, since you’re simple: kids for years have been required to recite a pledge that someone else made up for them, alongside all their peers. You’re not concerned about indoctrination; that’s a transparent lie. What you’re actually concerned about is left as an exercise to the reader. But it’d be great if you’d quit lying. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2972 "2021-11-08T03:34:38Z")
And, Sam, if you are actually interested in what I think about propagandistic views of history, feel free to read my Substack in how I discuss how the CRT issue cuts at the historical narrative white people create about themselves, one which inevitably focuses in on whites, their accomplishments, and how white conservatives bristle at suggestions that Western civilization shall ever be criticized by those we conquered and enslaved: > **[Critical Race Theory and White Fragility](https://thewaythingsought2b.substack.com/p/critical-race-theory-and-white-fragility?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=)** > > Imagine being so ashamed of your history you don't want it taught to your children. In short Sam, the traditional Western Civ narrative we were taught is _also_ propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2974 "2021-11-10T13:01:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Making up pledge cards with their pledge to fight for a political cause Per your own example this is not what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2975 "2021-11-10T14:58:57Z")
You are correct that propaganda and lies are an easier sell than the truth. Tell people what they want to hear, what confirms their biases, and they will follow you up to the gates of hell, and happily walk through as you step aside and let them. Point out to them that they are on the path to hell, however, and they get angry. It’s a problem of the human condition. I’m not sure the solution, to be honest. Maybe there isn’t one, and our civilization is doomed to collapse, as many have done. People take for granted, and then even become contemptuous, of the very things that make our civilization possible. I’d just rather remain on the side that tried to prevent it, rather than the side that encouraged it, even if encouraging failure is more personally lucrative. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2976 "2021-11-10T15:06:14Z")
Well, that’ll be our epitaph: _We Tried to Warn You_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2977 "2021-11-10T15:07:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Just look at the recent thread on the topic where conservative posters confidently assert utter nonsense as the definition of Socialism. A few points that I think are abit off on this. First, that’s not really all that recent of a thread. Second, I’m not a conservative. Third, I as it says in the title (or at least, a version thereof), I was responding to a specific posters ideas that he was calling socialism. I did not say that what he was saying was socialism, I was not talking shit about socialism, I was responding to the ideas put forward, and had to make a new thread for it in order to follow moderator instructions. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2978 "2021-11-10T15:10:01Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > Or does the CRT explanation (everything is RACE RACE RACE all the time, white people don’t do anything except out of a calculation as to what will harm blacks the most) make absolutely no sense when applied to Virginia voting patterns, much like it’s total nonsense in every other context? Se, the funny thing is, is that even though what you waid is all blatant lies and propaganda, Republicans will lap it up like a dog eats shit. They love that stuff, and will come out and support those who spew vile bullshit like you do. What to do about that, in order to continue to have a civilization that is worthy of the name, I don’t really know. I just know that you are one of those who are contributing to its fall. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2979 "2021-11-10T15:11:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Tell people what they want to hear, what confirms their biases, and they will follow you up to the gates of hell, and happily walk through as you step aside and let them. > > Point out to them that they are on the path to hell, however, and they get angry. Indeed. And then they blame you for pointing out that they’re believing and doing something blatantly wrong and dangerous, and if only you hadn’t done this they might not have done it but now they have to just to spite you. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Se, the funny thing is, is that even though what you waid is all blatant lies and propaganda, Republicans will lap it up like a dog eats shit. They love that stuff, and will come out and support those who spew vile bullshit like you do. > > What to do about that, in order to continue to have a civilization that is worthy of the name, I don’t really know. I just know that you are one of those who are contributing to its fall. To note: IANA Mod but I believe ZS is currently the subject of an all-fora topic ban on CRT. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2980 "2021-11-10T15:13:12Z")
The problem is is that the majority of conservatives will see what he has to say, and say, “Yes, yes, yes!!!” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2981 "2021-11-10T15:16:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not sure what can be done about such vile and harmful lies - they work. And apparently countering them with the truth doesn’t. It just makes them dig their heels in all the much more, and those who want to be above the fray then claim that both sides are equally at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2982 "2021-11-10T15:22:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > First, that’s not really all that recent of a thread. Second, I’m not a conservative. Third, I as it says in the title (or at least, a version thereof), I was responding to a specific posters ideas that he was calling socialism. I did not say that what he was saying was socialism, I was not talking shit about socialism, I was responding to the ideas put forward, and had to make a new thread for it in order to follow moderator instructions. I wasn’t talking about your OP. I was talking about some of the responses, where people come in and confidently assert that > [@Socialism(or at least, a version thereof) Vs Capitalism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialism-or-at-least-a-version-thereof-vs-capitalism/927389/65): > > Socialism (at least economic socialism) verse capitalism is really just a command economy verse a market economy in the end. You are right that the thread isn’t very recent though. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2983 "2021-11-10T15:32:38Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Right, and by the way–the left could build some sort of better “social media outrage” apparatus, they just don’t have the wherewithal. Well, any attempts to do so get dismantled as soon as its called “cancel culture” and “woke mob”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2984 "2021-11-10T15:48:40Z")
Except you are confidently asserting I’m a conservative when I’m not. 😛 I basically abandoned that thread because it simply wasn’t interesting and it was a perfect example of the worst aspects of this board. I will admit that my bald statement that: > [@Socialism(or at least, a version thereof) Vs Capitalism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/socialism-or-at-least-a-version-thereof-vs-capitalism/927389/65): > > Socialism (at least economic socialism) verse capitalism is really just a command economy verse a market economy in the end. Is too simplistic (and wrong because of that), but I didn’t want to get into means of production, etc because in the past when I brought that up wrt Socialism we’d go down the ‘But that’s COMMUNISM!’ rabbit hole. My point was that what people think of as Socialism (and Capitalism) on this board are generally incorrect. In that thread, basically, posters wanted to attribute all the things they like with the system they prefer and all of the things they hate with the system they don’t like. YMMV of course, but to me, that’s not an interesting discussion that I want to be involved in. I DO find it interesting this idea that I’m some sort of conservative, and I suppose by extension wrt this thread (which I haven’t read…just say my name pop up on this little icon thingy at the top right and figured I was being pitted for something when I saw where this was), that this board doesn’t need (or I suppose want) me around. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2985 "2021-11-10T15:58:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And then they blame you for pointing out that they’re believing and doing something blatantly wrong and dangerous, and if only you hadn’t done this they might not have done it but now they have to just to spite you. Case in point, those stories floating around about a month ago where there was whining about how the evil libs had _fooled_ them into getting vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2986 "2021-11-10T16:05:56Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Case in point, those stories floating around about a month ago where there was whining about how the evil libs had _fooled_ them into getting vaccinated. Into getting vaccinated, or into _not_ getting vaccinated? I’ve seen both. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2987 "2021-11-10T16:12:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I DO find it interesting this idea that I’m some sort of conservative, and I suppose by extension wrt this thread (which I haven’t read…just say my name pop up on this little icon thingy at the top right and figured I was being pitted for something when I saw where this was), that this board doesn’t need (or I suppose want) me around. C’est la vie. The thread is very long and has very little to do with the unfortunate title selected by a now-banned member. Rest assured, I have no problems with you\* and think you’re a thoughtful poster who contributes much to the board and I certainly don’t want you to no longer be around. \*Other than your inaccurate definition of Socialism! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2988 "2021-11-10T16:23:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I mean, his accusations are _vile_ , sure, but they’re not _interesting_ . There’s no need to treat them as such. He does serve the purpose of demonstrating the message that is being sold by and to Republicans. And it is a message that is winning, not in spite of it being full of vile lies, but because of it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2989 "2021-11-10T16:25:26Z")
😉 That’s fine. I can live with my definitions being wrong or old (I learned about this stuff back when dinosaurs ruled the earth after all). I come here for the fun of discussion and, basically, to be a reality check on what I believe to be true or what I think I know about, and see other points of view on things. But, just for the record, I’m not a conservative. It’s funny…conservatives I know call me liberal, on this board I’m considered a conservative. I guess it’s all about perspective. ETA: I didn’t know that the OP had been banned. I guess I missed that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2990 "2021-11-10T16:46:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m a product of the 70’s and 80’s education system. Everything you say you were not taught, I recall being taught or having been exposed to in some fashion throughout my life. Growing up in Canada I had a damn good idea about the history of colonization by the French and English and the impact on native populations. Hell, I still remember those lectures from my 6th grade teacher. Similarly about the history of slavery in the US. Canada has a different educational system than the US, one that seems to be a bit more fact based, and a bit less white washed. I’m a product of the 80’s and 90’s, in Ohio, not exactly the south, and my experience was much closer to @thorny_locust than yours. Congrats on having a better educational system that is not afraid of giving historical facts, and leaving significant parts of our generation without them. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think most people on the right are not simply racists, ignorant of history. I think that they don’t want to be thought of as racists, but they _are_ ignorant of history, and will take any suggestion of their privilege or idea that their actions could be harmful to minorities as accusations of racism, and double down in defensiveness. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think they are people who don’t feel they had any role in historical injustices and have come to resent poor progressive messaging (like Defund the Police, CRT and Anti-Racism) that they are somehow at the core of what’s wrong with America. Right, because it has to be all about them. That’s the whole problem, it’s not about them, but they _need_ to make it about them. And that makes _them_ the victim here. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s made worse by the fact that for many of them, America isn’t working for them either. It’s like a bad relationship in which you’re constantly being told that it’s all your fault. No, it’s more like a bad relationship where one person acts as a passive aggressive martyr, dramatically overreacting to _any_ negative comment. “The roof needs to be repaired.” “How is that my fault?!?! Why do you have to blame _ME_ for the leaking roof?!?!” > [@QuickSilver](#): > > At a certain point you stop listening and become very defensive about every criticism & accusation. I mean, that’s actually how it starts, taking _everything_ to be an accusation of personal failings to which you can claim persecution. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/2991 "2021-11-10T17:08:44Z")
Fair enough, sorry, I just felt a little called out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=148) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=150)