# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/21 "2021-07-28T06:29:38Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > People who are so sure about their dogmatic opinions that they refuse to listen to other ideas are part of the problem, regardless of their political persuasion. This, 100% this. Many, many conservatives are guilty of this, but due to the nature of the board, it’s more common to see people on the left (can’t call them liberals) with this attitude here. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > If one were to accept “fascist” as the sort of generic insult that might be thrown about willy-nilly for anyone who appears exclusionary of… anyone at all, then the word loses its meaning. And it’s clear to me now that it is a word that’s worth reserving and preserving as a label for actual fascists. The horse has long left that stable, thanks to wild overuse by people of your political persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/22 "2021-07-28T06:30:43Z")
It would be nice for America if they had Conservatives. Alas the category died with McCain. People now claiming to be conservative really should do something to find political representation for themselves. The GOP has not been conservative since 2004: Palin was a lot of things, Conservative isn’t one of them. In any meaningful sense of the word Biden is more Conservative than the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/23 "2021-07-28T06:36:28Z")
So, how far should this message board bend to make sure that some artificial “balance” is maintained? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/24 "2021-07-28T06:48:34Z")
“Fair and balanced” means; you take an outlier position, multiply the volume by the distance it is from center and award it airtime accordingly. Let’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/25 "2021-07-28T06:57:49Z")
“Conservatives” is a relative thing, for a start. I think most of us can agree that actual QAnon conspiracy theorist, flat-earther, vaccines-contain-5G-nanobots types aren’t bringing anything useful to the broader discussion. But “Conservative” also includes a lot of people for whom the status quo is working just fine, or who don’t see the need for change in a particular area, or would really rather just be left alone to live in peace, or who don’t see any reason to apologise for things that happened in the past, and so on. If you want a woke, social justice love-in echo chamber, Twitter is that way. But saying to people “You don’t agree with our left-wing views so we hate you, GTFO of our messageboard” isn’t fighting anyone’s ignorance or contributing to interesting discussions, debate, or conversations. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/26 "2021-07-28T06:57:50Z")
There’s zero, zero, _ **zero** _ need for balance if one side is objectively right and the other is wrong. No reason we should have people who think uranium is lighter than helium, for instance. It’s the subjective stuff that gets complex. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/27 "2021-07-28T07:01:24Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > But “Conservative” also includes a lot of people for whom the status quo is working just fine, or who don’t see the need for change in a particular area, or would really rather just be left alone to live in peace, or who don’t see any reason to apologise for things that happened in the past, and so on. By “past”, do you mean last year, last month, last week, yesterday, or a few hours ago? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/28 "2021-07-28T07:06:11Z")
I’m thinking in terms of years; and more broadly decades or centuries, and especially so when the speaker personally wasn’t involved in any of whatever happened. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/29 "2021-07-28T07:13:02Z")
Yeah-That is exactly what the problem is on this board, not the current horrendous stuff that has been going on for so long. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/30 "2021-07-28T07:15:26Z")
I’m using it as one of the broader examples of “Conservative”, not an example of specific issues on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/31 "2021-07-28T07:15:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, how far should this message board bend to make sure that some artificial “balance” is maintained? Not much if at all. If someone is egregiously wrong, feel free to shred their arguments to papier mache and spit them back as forcefully as is permissible without calling people names. By all means destroy people’s dumbass views till they change, go quiet or don’t _want_ to come back. But don’t silence people outright. That’s what I loved about these boards back in the good old days\* - there were a variety of viewpoints, about which there was - let’s say - _highly robust_ argument. And the weaker viewpoints got ritually slaughtered. Which was fun and I learned much _including_ that some issues on which I take a left wing/liberal stance are not quite as clear as I’d previously thought. I’m in favour of this: > [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](#): > > Eh, I think they deserve to be judged on a case-by-case or post-by-post basis. There is too much gross generalization in the world for my liking. Deal with each particular thing as it is, not by lumping points as “left” or “right” then venerating or decrying them accordingly. Moderation that effectively means certain things can’t be said because they are too “obviously” untrue or offensive, or banning posters because they are “trolling” when the evidence they are trolling is that they are saying things that are too obviously untrue or offensive is or would be a backward step. \*Yeah, I know. Get off my lawn! ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/32 "2021-07-28T07:19:38Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > If you want a woke, social justice love-in echo chamber, Twitter is that way. But saying to people “You don’t agree with our left-wing views so we hate you, GTFO of our messageboard” isn’t fighting anyone’s ignorance or contributing to interesting discussions, debate, or conversations. That isn’t just excluding conservatives, but also centrists and many people on the left. A board comprised of people who all share the same narrow subset of views can neither fight ignorance nor sustain interesting debate, but sadly that is the way the SDMB is heading. > [@Velocity](#): > > There’s zero, zero, _ **zero** _ need for balance if one side is objectively right and the other is wrong. No reason we should have people who think uranium is lighter than helium, for instance. > > It’s the subjective stuff that gets complex. I disagree. Because sometimes it is the majority who are doing the equivalent of insisting uranium is lighter than helium, so it’s essential to allow those who disagree to come in and present their best evidence. Too many people assume the board is about fighting other people’s ignorance, but it should also be about fighting our own. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/33 "2021-07-28T07:58:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There’s zero, zero, _ **zero** _ need for balance if one side is objectively right and the other is wrong. No reason we should have people who think uranium is lighter than helium, for instance. The reality though is that very few if any people post the metaphorical equivalent of “_uranium is lighter than helium_”. That really isn’t the issue. The reality is that arguments are primarily about matters that are far less clear-cut. Additionally, even insofar as some misguided posters may post the metaphorical equivalent of “_uranium is lighter than helium_”, in my view the preferred approach is to point out using a variety of appropriate cites that they are incorrect. Not to ban them or spend inordinate amounts of time whining about how they should be banned. Of course there have always been a minority of posters who have come here to espouse such views to the point of mental illness and it is perhaps a kindness to ban them or at least give them a topic ban, for their own sake as much as anything. But in my opinion that should be a last resort, and really only where their behaviour has reached the level of objective nuisance. Such as if they post multiple threads on the same topic or actually derail otherwise sensible topics with their nonsense. Banning posters outright or on a particular topic merely because their views tend to be egregiously wrong isn’t the right approach in my view. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/34 "2021-07-28T08:48:05Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > But don’t silence people outright. We have a small, very vocal contingent of “Conservatives” that are now playing the martyr and whining about their unfair treatment. If they would be arguing in good faith there wouldn’t be the constant dogpile on their posts. They seem to exclusively post gotcha/both sides bullshit and are then surprised that people get ticked off about that. I believe most of them are more than intelligent enough to know what they are doing: They are here playing games and whining to the “refs” when they are not “winning”. Nobody is calling for the outright silencing of dissenting voices: They are calling for limits to the leeway these trolls have. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/35 "2021-07-28T08:54:02Z")
What limits? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/36 "2021-07-28T09:04:08Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Nobody is calling for the outright silencing of dissenting voices: You literally told me not to let the door hit my ass on the way out [in the other thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end/947060/175). Saying “Fuck off, you’re not wanted or valued here” very much _is_ a form of silencing dissenting voices. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/37 "2021-07-28T09:09:39Z")
Telling you to piss off is not about systematically silencing a group of people. It is about you. Stop trying to be a martyr for assholes worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/38 "2021-07-28T09:10:27Z")
> [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](#): > > IMO, if a poster is spreading egregious misinformation, they should be handled with topic and/or thread bans, before we excommunicate them entirely. I agree with this, as far as it goes. But when they’re spreading outright bigotry (see, eg, the recent banning of **jtur88** ), that’s a different matter, and I’m happy to see that kind of poster go. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/39 "2021-07-28T09:10:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’d say that we DO need conservatives, for robust debate and entertainment. What we DON’T need is a peanut gallery full of radical reactionaries. I agree. There’s nothing wrong with conservatives per se, and over the years I’ve had a lot of constructive conversations with conservatives on this board over the years and have even changed my views on various things. The problem not that certain posters are “conservative” (however we’re defining that); it’s that they’re fundamentally dishonest and malign. They will push a specific narrative over and over, and continue to do so even when it’s been thoroughly debunked. They will willfully - repeatedly - misrepresent what other posters have said. And when they’re called out on it, they will whine about how they’re being persecuted for “being conservative” or for straying from the “board doctrine” or for not being one of the in-crowd - because when you’re already being called out for being a disingenuous asshole, why not play to your strengths and be disingenuous about why you’re being called out? To be honest, I _yearn_ for mature, honest conservatives to be a part of this board, as they have been in the past. But unfortunately, in a world where right-wing politics and media consist of little more than a constant stream of lies, hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy and where half the country lives in a reality-free zone, the American right-wing has largely been groomed out of any semblance of maturity, honesty or critical thinking skills, and those conservatives that still cling to them are brutally sidelined by their political bedfellows. Which is a pity - for them, for this board and for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/40 "2021-07-28T09:11:11Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Telling you to piss off is not about systematically silencing a group of people. It’s about silencing people with viewpoints you don’t like, and frankly I find your hostility bizarre given I don’t believe we’ve ever actually interacted before that thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=3)