# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/664 "2021-08-03T08:49:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Why does it matter what word one uses when insulting someone (or in the actual example an idea) by saying it is stupid? If using a certain word is offensive, it can only be because the comparison itself is offensive, so why do we consider it acceptable to make the comparison with one word but not another? I can’t really parse this paragraph. If you’re asking why some words are worse than others, even in a context where both are being used as insults, well, they just are: that’s language for you. I could call a child a “silly billy” but not a “fucking cunt”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/665 "2021-08-03T08:57:26Z")
You think it is offensive to call the culture war retarded, right? Why is that, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/666 "2021-08-03T09:02:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I absolutely reject controls on my behaviour based on what ‘a lot’ of people want me to do. I have my own moral code, and I will follow it and I don’t care what anyone has to say about it. Your posting history suggests you care a lot about it. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Neither side gives a shit about evidence when it happens to contradict their preferred ideological beliefs. Worse, one side is overwhelmingly over-represented in academia, most especially in social science departments, and has now started to apply an ideological filter in academic journal publishing. Do you have any evidence for that assertion? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/667 "2021-08-03T09:06:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Your posting history suggests you care a lot about it. I assume what he means is that he isn’t going to change his moral code, or stop following it due to what people say. Don’t be so literal. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Do you have any evidence for that assertion? Which one, and what sort of evidence do you want? ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/668 "2021-08-03T09:30:25Z")
Did you miss the “in good faith” part of both @Velocity’s comment, and, of the expectations on this board? It is the Pit, so bullshit is expected, but openly disingenuous bullshit will get called out. At least try to create ingenuous bullshit, if only to entertain yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/669 "2021-08-03T09:38:16Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’ve quoted the part of my post where I stated my position, but not the part where I _explained_ my position and then gave an example to illustrate. Your example was not relevant and neither was your explanation seeing as they were responding to a point I was not making. You are the one suggesting that the numbers involved can make something objectively offensive whilst at the same time seeming to claim that the reverse can’t be true. I’ve claimed neither as I don’t think either is correct. If those aren’t your claims then feel free to clarify > [@Mijin](#): > > Instead of just parroting your claim again, you might want to have a run at actually addressing the points. Which is why indeed I needed to state it again for clarity. If you want to respond to the points I’m actually making I’d be happy to discuss further. There is no doubt that two groups can disagree on whether something is offensive. There is also no doubt that situations arise where something is benign for one group and offensive for the other. Who gets to decide? You think it is the group for which it is offensive, you seem to _assume_ I think it is the group for whom it isn’t offensive. I think both are wrong. There isn’t a decision to be made and there isn’t an objective standard that can be applied. It would be wrong and arrogant of either group to state that their perception of offensiveness must be deemed correct and that the other group must change usage/meaning or perception. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/670 "2021-08-03T09:45:49Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Did you miss the “in good faith” part of both @Velocity’s comment, and, of the expectations on this board? Considering I repeated it in my reply to him, it’s obvious that I didn’t miss it. I have no idea what point you are attempting to make. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/671 "2021-08-03T10:04:12Z")
That’s OK, no one is asking you to understand anything at all. We are - or at least I am - hoping that at some point that the “good faith” part might sink into your brain. Hopefully. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/672 "2021-08-03T10:07:06Z")
Okay, you’re just taking potshots. Come back if you ever have anything relevant or interesting to say. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/673 "2021-08-03T11:04:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You think it is offensive to call the culture war retarded, right? Why is that, exactly? Discourse gave me an alert like this response was for me, but I’ve said no such thing. I think you might be thinking of @IvoryTowerDenizen. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > There is also no doubt that situations arise where something is benign for one group and offensive for the other. > Who gets to decide? You think it is the group for which it is offensive, you seem to _assume_ I think it is the group for whom it isn’t offensive. This is at the crux of your misconception. If a word is offensive to group A, and not offensive to group B, then the word is offensive, period, because “offensive” _very obviously_ does not mean all people always find the word offensive. It’s like if a word is marked _vulgar_ in a dictionary; it’s a warning that _some_ people _sometimes_ may find that word vulgar, not everyone needs to agree on that. Now, yes, there is a debate to be had on _how many_ people need to find something offensive, and to what degree etc. That’s a fine debate to be had. That’s a different thing from saying “Nuh-uh, not offensive” though. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/674 "2021-08-03T11:06:58Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Discourse gave me an alert like this response was for me, but I’ve said no such thing. I think you might be thinking of @IvoryTowerDenizen. Where you not endorsing that opinion? That was how I interpreted your comments. _Do_ you think it is offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/675 "2021-08-03T11:20:38Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If a word is offensive to group A, and not offensive to group B, then the word is offensive, period, I disagree. A word does not become globally offensive simply because one group _finds_ it offensive. It remains only offensive to group A, _not_ to group B. That’s the whole point. You cannot declare that group B’s use of it is offensive. Only that group A _take_ offence. > [@Mijin](#): > > Now, yes, there is a debate to be had on _how many_ people need to find something offensive, and to what degree etc. That’s a fine debate to be had. In order to understand how much of a problem it is causing, yes. But it is a debate that starts with accepting that neither side can speak for the experience of the other. > [@Mijin](#): > > That’s a different thing from saying “Nuh-uh, not offensive” though. You’ll never find me saying that a person taking offence is not actually feeling that emotion. I’m sure it is true to them. I would not however jump to the conclusion that they are warranted in taking that offence, nor that anything should necessarily happen because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/676 "2021-08-03T11:23:59Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Where you not endorsing that opinion? That was how I interpreted your comments. _Do_ you think it is offensive? I think “retard” has been verboten for many years at this point; certainly it’s not used on TV any more, and mental health groups wouldn’t dream of using it. I’m not sure I would have picked someone up on using it in the Pit though. Also, while we’re talking about this, I would concede that it is becoming difficult to find benign words for “stupid”, and I don’t think it’s appropriate to discourage words solely based on etymology (most people don’t even know the etymology of “stupid”). There’s a debate to be had, sure. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/677 "2021-08-03T11:31:26Z")
I wouldn’t use it outside the Pit. It just seemed a little precious to complain about it in a forum dedicated to being offensive. The point I was failing to make clearly earlier is that maybe there shouldn’t be any benign words for ‘stupid’ (when used as a insult). Because using something as an insult implies that that thing is bad; that’s the objection to using ‘gay’ as an insult, after all. It seems to me the only logically consistent position would be to stop calling things stupid at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/678 "2021-08-03T11:33:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I disagree. A word does not become globally offensive simply because one group _finds_ it offensive. > It remains only offensive to group A, _not_ to group B. That’s the whole point. You cannot declare that group B’s use of it is offensive. Only that group A _take_ offence. LOL. You’ve cut out the part where I again explained that “offensive” does not mean _globally_ offensive, and the illustrative example I gave. So that’s two explanations, two examples, and the second time you’re just pretending to have not seen the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/679 "2021-08-03T11:44:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I wouldn’t use it outside the Pit. It just seemed a little precious to complain about it in a forum dedicated to being offensive. I agree. > [@DemonTree](#): > > The point I was failing to make clearly earlier is that maybe there shouldn’t be any benign words for ‘stupid’ (when used as a insult). Because using something as an insult implies that that thing is bad; that’s the objection to using ‘gay’ as an insult, after all. It seems to me the only logically consistent position would be to stop calling things stupid at all. I think “stupid” is not a good example here though, because this adjective is used in many contexts; for objects and situations as well as people. And even when applied to people it often refers to a temporary state, not a permanent characteristic. It’s a bit much to strike the word completely, especially given that the argument for doing so is often based on the (little-known) etymology of the word. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/680 "2021-08-03T11:54:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > This is a misunderstanding of different meanings of the word “racist” > > If it is, it’s a misunderstanding that’s extremely prevalent among people on the left. > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > And this is just wrong. Every single person\* who ever called members of the Tea Party “Tea Baggers” knew they were being offensive (and making a sexual reference). And if you called them on it, they would have admitted they were intending to offend. Republicans dropped the “ic” from Democratic because they didn’t want to admit that their opponents support Democracy, but deny that the goal is to be offensive. > > Okay, so you’re _purposely_ being horribly offensive to a group of people, and meanwhile calling that same group out for accidentally being offensive to other groups of people? Doesn’t that seem just the teeniest, tiniest bit hypocritical to you? Whatever happened to treating others the way you want them to treat you? Sigh. 1. not sure if joking or serious 2. i am not defending anyone for intentionally insulting their political rivals. I AM calling out Republicans for intentionally insulting their political rivals and lying about it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/681 "2021-08-03T12:01:01Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think “stupid” is not a good example here though, because this adjective is used in many contexts; for objects and situations as well as people. And even when applied to people it often refers to a temporary state, not a permanent characteristic. It’s a bit much to strike the word completely, especially given that the argument for doing so is often based on the (little-known) etymology of the word. I’m not actually advocating for this, just saying I think it would be logically consistent. ‘Stupid’ is not used to describe a person in a non-insulting context, unless perhaps it is a temporary state, like you said. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > not sure if joking or serious I’ve seen plenty of people argue that POC can’t be racist, seemingly in all seriousness. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > i am not defending anyone for intentionally insulting their political rivals. I AM calling out Republicans for intentionally insulting their political rivals and lying about it. Okay, maybe you’re not, but it’s an **very** common attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/682 "2021-08-03T12:03:01Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > LOL. You’ve cut out the part where I again explained that “offensive” does not mean _globally_ offensive, and the illustrative example I gave. So that’s two explanations, two examples, and the second time you’re just pretending to have not seen the argument. Don’t worry, I’ve seen and understood what you’ve written but your examples are not doing what you think they are doing and are not making your point as well as you think they are. You are applying a global categorisation of “offensive” to something if _any_ group finds it offensive. I disagree with that approach and that labelling. > [@Mijin](#): > > It’s like if a word is marked _vulgar_ in a dictionary; it’s a warning that _some_ people _sometimes_ may find that word vulgar, not everyone needs to agree on that. A dictionary details usage, it doesn’t dictate meaning. To that end you find “vulgar” against a usage not against the word itself. That clearly means that the same word can be used in a non-vulgar way. The same is true for words that will be offensive when used in certain ways and not in others. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/683 "2021-08-03T13:27:51Z")
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