# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/704 "2021-08-03T15:36:43Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > A: They called themselves ‘tea baggers’ 'cause they’re not smart enough to look it up on Google with safesearch off. That was fun! Anyone remember this? _It’s going to be teabagging day for the right wing and they’re going nuts for it. Thousands of them whipped out the festivities early this past weekend, and while the parties are officially toothless, the teabaggers are full-throated about their goals. They want to give Obama a strong tongue-lashing and lick government spending………..snip….if you’re planning simultaneous teabagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey._ > **[Shuster's 'Teabagging' Double Entendres: 'You're Going to Need a Dick Armey'](https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/noel-sheppard/2009/04/14/shusters-teabagging-double-entendres-youre-going-need-dick-armey)** > > The good folks at MSNBC have been disparaging tax protesting Tea Parties by referring to them as the sexually charged double entendre "teabagging."As decency prevents a clinical explanation of the term, curious readers not in the know should check... The truth is, the teabaggers were nothing more than a pack of grifters, out to rob their base blind while convincing them that poor people who’d recently lost their homes were the ones that were really to blame for their misery. The IRS was right to investigate them, it was probably the most righteous thing they’ve ever done. And the Republican Party was stupid to make that political and shut it down, it was the first stupidest thing they did. But they paved the way and became the party of grift. A couple of right-wingers saw it coming but they were universally ignored. > **[The Right’s Grifter Problem | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-real-problem-conservatism-faces-today/)** > > No, the answer is not David French. > **[50 Million Down The Tubes: How 17 Conservative PACs Are Spending Their Money...](https://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/50-million-tubes-17-conservative-pacs-spending-money/)** > > The late, great Eric Hoffer once said that, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” Some people have started to wonder Now, even though the party has a massive fund-raising apparatus and rakes in tons of money from the rubes, they hire money-launderers as campaign managers….Manafort…Parscale….and end up broke at the times when it really counts. Their incompetence is delicious, I love watching them self-destruct. But I only think this because I spend all my time in a liberal bubble, they’ll say to the woman that just cited The National Review and Right Wing News, ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/705 "2021-08-03T16:09:34Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Cuomo has had multiple, public accusations of sexual harassment and assault yet he’s still going strong. At this very moment, right now, WNYC (my local public radio station) is broadcasting New York Attorney General Letitia James’ announcement of the results of her investigation, which found that Governor Cuomo did indeed harass multiple women. I’m not sure Cuomo is going to be “going strong” much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/706 "2021-08-03T16:19:50Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’m not sure Cuomo is going to be “going strong” much longer. Indeed - the sooner the better. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/707 "2021-08-03T16:25:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are applying a global categorisation of “offensive” to something if _any_ group finds it offensive. I disagree with that approach and that labelling. No I am saying it’s _not_ a “global categorisation”. I’m saying that the concept of “offensive” only means a word is offensive to _some_. The idea that it is a claim that everyone always finds a term offensive is a straw man. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > A dictionary details usage, it doesn’t dictate meaning. To that end you find “vulgar” against a usage not against the word itself. That clearly means that the same word can be used in a non-vulgar way. You might want to actually look in a dictionary before making such claims. Words can and are marked as [vulgar](https://www.oed.com/oed2/00013185), and indeed [offensive](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/crap). And, **very obviously** , the standard for categorizing as such is not that _everyone always_ finds it offensive, which would be absurd. So note that even if you had been correct about this, it still in itself would have done nothing to support your position. Let’s say that a dictionary says that “fucked” in the usage “fucked up” is vulgar. Do you think they are making the claim that all people always agree that this is vulgar? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/708 "2021-08-03T16:36:30Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It appears to me that you were saying two things that are contradictory: that a word isn’t offensive if the group using it doesn’t think so For that group, yes. Their meaning and usage may be wholly inoffensive for them and that isn’t changed by the fact that someone else may take offence. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > and that some words are offensive even if some groups using it don’t think so More precisely I’d say that some groups will take offence even when what is being said is clearly being done from a different context, culture and understanding. The fact that one group is _taking_ offence does not magically confer an “offensive” label on what has been said. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Maybe this will help to clarify: as you’ve agreed that some words are generally offensive even if there’s at least one group that doesn’t think so, I stated previously that it is not necessarily possible for either side to pin an objective offensive/non-offensive label. They can only state what it means to them. Neither is right, neither is wrong. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > what is it that makes those words qualify as generally offensive? “generally offensive” to me suggests a pretty unanimous understanding that the only usage and purpose would be to cause offense. I don’t know how many of those words exist. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/709 "2021-08-03T16:51:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If I am calling you ‘retarded’ I am also saying that what you are doing or saying at that moment or in general lacks intelligence, but the word ‘retarded’ does not mean ‘lacks intelligence’, it means ‘suffers from an intellectual disability’. But the person you are saying this about is NOT suffering from an intellectual disability - you just disagree with them. One would be using the term as a slur, and it is considered socially unacceptable. > [@Babale](#): > > If I am calling you ‘gay’ (in this context), I am ALSO saying that what you are doing or saying at that moment or in general lacks intelligence. But this time the word doesn’t mean that AT ALL, not even if you stretch it. ‘Gay’ is only insulting if there is something fundamentally wrong with being homosexual. I would expand on this to say that calling someone “gay” (or their actions, clothes, hair, etc) is generally meant to indicate that someone is not masculine enough. By extension, that they are weak or “not normal”. Again, it’s a very loaded slur. I agree that it should not be a slur if one views homosexuality as fine. What happens is that people who have no issue with homosexuality don’t use it as a slur, and those who do, do. It reveals more about the user than the recipient. As opposed to calling someone a pustule\*, for example. \*(Not directed at **babale** ) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/710 "2021-08-03T16:59:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m saying that the concept of “offensive” only means a word is offensive to _some_ OK, I’m fine with that. That also means the concept of inoffensive would be that the word is inoffensive to _some_. Are you fine with that? > [@Mijin](#): > > You might want to actually look in a dictionary before making such claims. I did, in your cites the definition of “ass” is incomplete (i.e. the obvious non-offensive version is not there) and the one for “crap” has other entries included that are not marked as offensive. > [@Mijin](#): > > Let’s say that a dictionary says that “fucked” in the usage “fucked up” is vulgar. Do you think they are making the claim that all people always agree that this is vulgar? No. and placing “offensive” against a word usage in a dictionary does not mean that all other usages of that word are offensive. I’m not the one who brought up dictionary definitions remember. They are not a great source for deciding all the ways in which words can be used. They are a naturally lagging record of language and don’t necessarily cross cultural boundaries very well. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/711 "2021-08-03T17:00:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > ‘Gay’ is only insulting if there is something fundamentally wrong with being homosexual. I don’t think this is quite right. It’s about 99.9% right. I do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with being homosexual. I don’t believe there is anything even a little bit wrong with being homosexual. But if I call someone “gay,” or say that there is something “gay” about something that person is saying or doing, and I intend to insult that person, I’m doing a couple of things. First, I’m assuming that the person will be insulted by being called “gay,” which probably means that they think there _is_ something wrong with being homosexual. And I’m playing on that, and therefore kind of reinforcing that. And then I’m insulting all the people who are homosexual, because I’m legitimizing the belief that being homosexual, or “gay,” or “queer,” is in fact an inferior and deviant state of being. So “gay” can be, and sometimes is, insulting even though there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with being homosexual, and even if the utterer of the word doesn’t believe there’s anything wrong with being homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/712 "2021-08-03T17:10:00Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > So “gay” can be, and sometimes is, insulting even though there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with being homosexual, and even if the utterer of the word doesn’t believe there’s anything wrong with being homosexual. I agree in theory - but of course then you [general, hypothetical you] are the sort of person who is willing to perpetuate this view of homosexuality for the sake of insulting someone, which is pretty shitty. But shitty for a different reason. Like if you aren’t racist, but you use racism to get votes. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/713 "2021-08-03T17:13:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Like if you aren’t racist, but you use racism to get votes. We’re going to agree with each other in theory all day long. 😆 But if someone who isn’t personally racist exploits racism to get votes, they’re a racist. I can’t see it any other way. Just as the person who uses “gay” as an insult, even though he or she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with being homosexual, is a homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/714 "2021-08-03T17:16:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > But if someone who isn’t personally racist exploits racism to get votes, they’re a racist. I can’t see it any other way. > > Just as the person who uses “gay” as an insult, even though he or she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with being homosexual, is a homophobe. Right. One could quibble over whether these people are racists/homophobes or just garden-variety jerks who are willing to exploit racism/homophobia but I think this is a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/715 "2021-08-03T17:18:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Here is the difference between ‘stupid’, ‘gay’, and ‘retarded’. I think it’s simpler than that: nobody self-identifies as “stupid.” If you call something stupid, nobody’s going to overhear you and say, “Hey, _I’m_ stupid, and what you just said was offensive to me!” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/716 "2021-08-03T17:20:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Getting a consensus might be hard, but we could all make more of an effort to specify which definition we are using, and to clarify which someone else meant before making assumptions. I’ve seen lots of people clarifying that one on these boards. This is mostly where I myself got those clarifications. > [@DemonTree](#): > > If enough people do that, the definitions they used would start catching on, at least on this board. They seem to have done so with some people. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > “generally offensive” to me suggests a pretty unanimous understanding that the only usage and purpose would be to cause offense. I don’t know how many of those words exist. Do you think any such words exist? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/717 "2021-08-03T17:22:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think it’s simpler than that: nobody self-identifies as “stupid.” I don’t know about that. I know for a fact that there are plenty of people who are more intelligent than I am. There might even be one or two here at SDMB. 😁 I’m certain that many, probably even most, people here have attained higher levels of education than I have. So, most days, I kind of do think of myself as “stupid.” Especially at the end of the day, when I’m looking back at what I’ve done, and the conversations I’ve had with people, and the things it took me all day to understand. Doesn’t mean I like it any better when someone calls me “stupid.” Even if I think they’re right. Because I _know_ they’re trying to insult me. Which means they _are_ insulting me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/718 "2021-08-03T17:24:49Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > But if I call someone “gay,” or say that there is something “gay” about something that person is saying or doing, and I intend to insult that person, I’m doing a couple of things. > > First, I’m assuming that the person will be insulted by being called “gay,” which probably means that they think there _is_ something wrong with being homosexual. And I’m playing on that, and therefore kind of reinforcing that. > > And then I’m insulting all the people who are homosexual, because I’m legitimizing the belief that being homosexual, or “gay,” or “queer,” is in fact an inferior and deviant state of being. This is a lovely example of how one uses a slur. And that’s why “gay” and “retarded” used as insults are slurs. (“Retarded” is still pretty close to being a euphemism for people who have intellectual disabilities. “Idiot” used to be such a word, but hasn’t meant that in my lifetime. “Stupid” was never used to describe an actual class of people.) Some slurs are allowed in the pit, but even here, they reflect badly on the person who uses them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/719 "2021-08-03T17:25:46Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Doesn’t mean I like it any better when someone calls me “stupid.” Yes, but do you care particularly if someone else is called stupid? If I say, “I hate stupid people,” do you assume I’m talking about you? Compared to, say, “I hate Catholic people?” ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/720 "2021-08-03T17:32:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Hey, _I’m_ stupid, and what you just said was offensive to me!” Not yet, but I’m filin’ that one away for use later. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/721 "2021-08-03T17:33:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > but do you care particularly if someone else is called stupid? If I say, “I hate stupid people,” do you assume I’m talking about you? Compared to, say, “I hate Catholic people?” I’m not Saintly\_Loser; but while I wouldn’t assume you were talking about me, I would assume that you were expressing an opinion I think is obnoxious; at least, if you were that general about it. If you said “I hate stupid people who don’t use their turn signals”, for instance, I’d assume you were calling the behavior stupid, rather than declaring your disdain for everyone you thought to be less intelligent than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/722 "2021-08-03T17:34:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, but do you care particularly if someone else is called stupid? If I say, “I hate stupid people,” do you assume I’m talking about you? Compared to, say, “I hate Catholic people?” If you call me stupid, I’m going to be insulted. Even if I think I’m stupid, and that you’re right that I’m not the smartest guy in the room, I know you _meant_ to insult me. And that, in and of itself, regardless of the words used, is insulting. If I have a degree from a community college (which I do), and someone insinuates (or says outright) that a community college degree is something that less intelligent people can perhaps aspire to, that maybe, if they try hard, they can have this fucking participation trophy for stupid people, goddamn right I’m going to be insulted. Again, even if the person uttering the insult is right. And if you call someone else stupid, I might or might not care. I’ll care _a lot_ if you’re punching down (as they say). If you call someone who didn’t get a chance to graduate from high school “stupid,” I’ll turn into a white knight. Perhaps not a rational response, but that’s what will happen. If you call someone with a graduate degree from Harvard “stupid,” I’ll probably figure that he can take care of himself. And saying “I hate Catholic people” is just plain bigotry. I mean, does anyone disagree? Why is that even part of the conversation here? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/723 "2021-08-03T17:43:58Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > If you call me stupid, I’m going to be insulted. Yeah, I think we can take it as a given that directly insulting people is insulting to them. That’s pretty obviously not what I’m talking about. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And if you call someone else stupid, I might or might not care. I’ll care _a lot_ if you’re punching down (as they say). Also super not relevant to my point. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And saying “I hate Catholic people” is just plain bigotry. I mean, does anyone disagree? Why is that even part of the conversation here? Because I’m trying to illustrate the difference between personal and group insults, and how group insults are insulting to everyone who identifies as part of the group, and not just the person directly being referred to. “Gay” is a group that a lot of people self-identify with, like “disabled” or “Catholic.” “Stupid” is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=37)