# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/724 "2021-08-03T17:44:49Z")
How about people with two-year degrees? Do you think it should be out of line to use that as an insult? > [@Miller](#): > > “Stupid” is not. Also, you’re wrong about this. A lot of people agonize every day over this, believing that they’re just not as smart as everyone around them. A _lot_. The fact that you apparently can’t understand this doesn’t make it any less true. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/725 "2021-08-03T17:45:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think it’s simpler than that: nobody self-identifies as “stupid.” If you call something stupid, nobody’s going to overhear you and say, “Hey, _I’m_ stupid, and what you just said was offensive to me!” But I’d argue that’s because at least partly stupid is not a noun. A better example is moron(ic). Moron is a noun that applies to a single person, but, still, no one self-identifies as a moron. But, honestly, I’d argue that getting too wrapped up in trying to make rules out of what is acceptable language misses the point. Language is messy. The main thing is just listening to who the term has historically been used to disparage. It’s not like people tend to self-identify as “(mentally) retarded” these days. But apparently that particular insult was abused so much that it became more hurtful than others. It was shortened from the original, turned into a noun, and given a more contemptuous tone of voice when said. There are numerous reasons why this may have happened. But the point is, the minority group it maligned told us that it was particularly hurtful. And there’s really not any good argument for why we need that word. There’s a reason why, even back when it was used, it was mostly by teens to make fun of other teens. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/726 "2021-08-03T17:50:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also super not relevant to my point. It’s 100% relevant to your point. You said: > [@Miller](#): > > Yes, but do you care particularly if someone else is called stupid? I responded with an answer about how I might care, and why. It was a direct answer, on-topic, to your question. To say it’s “super not relevant” is, well, I don’t even know what it is. You asked a question, you got a perfectly on-point answer. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/727 "2021-08-03T18:00:04Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Also, you’re wrong about this. A lot of people agonize every day over this, believing that they’re just not as smart as everyone around them. A _lot_ . That’s 100% not relevant to the point I’m trying to make. There are people who think they’re stupid, because of low self-esteem, or self-deprecation, or whatever. There are not people who _identify_ as stupid, _in the way people identify as gay/black/Catholic/etc._ Again, if someone around you says, “I thought that movie was stupid,” are you personally offended? > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I responded with an answer about how I might care, and why. It was a direct answer, on-topic, to your question. That’s not relevant to the point I’m making. Yeah, if you call my mom stupid, I’m offended, because I love my mom. Not because I have an emotional investment in “stupid” as a personal identity. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/728 "2021-08-03T18:02:48Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And saying “I hate Catholic people” is just plain bigotry. I mean, does anyone disagree? Why is that even part of the conversation here? It’s possibly bigoted, depending on context. Things get messier when dealing with belief systems rather than innate traits. It’s possible that someone could in fact mean that they believe certain Catholic beliefs are gravely immoral, and thus hate the people who choose to have those beliefs. In the right circumstances—i.e. someone venting righteous fury—it could make sense. Now, if we were talking about slurs, then there’s no question that is bigoted. I personally don’t know of any anti-Catholic slurs off the top of my head. But, if someone used those, then it becomes more clear what their underlying meaning is. There’s also just the fact that Catholics (and Christians in general) are in a position of privilege in our society. We Christians are not being persecuted. People who say bigoted shit towards us are not a threat to us. Thus we have more reason to let these things roll off our backs. In short, what we may experience is nowhere near as bad as what minorities face, and thus we kinda need to show our desire to put others first and not make everything about how **we** feel. That’s part of our ideology, after all. You’re currently hijacking this to be about Catholics when that was not remotely the point. We were talking about slurs against minorities and why they are worse than mere hateful words. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/729 "2021-08-03T18:12:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There’s also just the fact that Catholics (and Christians in general) are in a position of privilege in our society. We Christians are not being persecuted. People who say bigoted shit towards us are not a threat to us. Thus we have more reason to let these things roll off our backs. > > In short, what we may experience is nowhere near as bad as what minorities face, and thus we kinda need to show our desire to put others first and not make everything about how **we** feel. That’s part of our ideology, after all. That may or may not be true in US society (it isn’t in the UK), but it’s not true here on the board. I’m pretty sure Christians are in the minority here, and are definitely not privileged. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/730 "2021-08-03T18:12:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s 100% not relevant to the point I’m trying to make. There are people who think they’re stupid, because of low self-esteem, or self-deprecation, or whatever. There are not people who _identify_ as stupid, _in the way people identify as gay/black/Catholic/etc._ I’m sorry. This isn’t a personal dig, but you’re just plain wrong. Sure, nobody “identifies” as stupid they same way that they “identify” (assuming competence and adulthood) in the same way they more or less voluntarily associate themselves with (like the Catholic Church), but plenty of people will say, when they’re in an introspective mood, if they’re not being challenged or insulted, “yeah, I’m kind of stupid.” And they will mean it. There are indeed people who identify as stupid, who think it’s an immutable part of who they are. These people exist. Perhaps it reflects well upon your intelligence that you can’t see it, that this is incomprehensible to you, but it’s nonetheless real. > [@Miller](#): > > Again, if someone around you says, “I thought that movie was stupid,” are you personally offended? “Again?” Seriously? That’s not the question you asked in the first place. You’re retconning what you said. What you said was: > [@Miller](#): > > Yes, but do you care particularly if someone else is called stupid? You didn’t ask about calling a _movie_ “stupid,” you asked about calling a _person_ “stupid.” Very different thing. And I answered that question directly, so I see no point in expanding on my answer, but I’ll quote myself: > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And if you call someone else stupid, I might or might not care. I’ll care _a lot_ if you’re punching down (as they say). If you call someone who didn’t get a chance to graduate from high school “stupid,” I’ll turn into a white knight. Perhaps not a rational response, but that’s what will happen. If you call someone with a graduate degree from Harvard “stupid,” I’ll probably figure that he can take care of himself. That was a perfectly clear, direct answer to your direct question. Absolutely relevant. Also, you don’t seem to be interested in responding to my thoughts about using educational level as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/731 "2021-08-03T18:14:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re currently hijacking this to be about Catholics when that was not remotely the point. Seriously? _I’m_ hijacking this? I didn’t bring this into the thread. **Miller** did. And my response to him was: > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Why is that even part of the conversation here? I’m not hijacking anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/732 "2021-08-03T18:14:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Hey, _I’m_ stupid, and what you just said was offensive to me!” > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Not yet, but I’m filin’ that one away for use later. I’d lay even money on it being done on Reddit at least once, given Redditors’ particular brand of self-deprecating humor. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/733 "2021-08-03T18:20:35Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’m sorry. This isn’t a personal dig, but you’re just plain wrong. Sure, nobody “identifies” as stupid they same way that they “identify” (assuming competence and adulthood) in the same way they more or less voluntarily associate themselves with (like the Catholic Church), but plenty of people will say, when they’re in an introspective mood, if they’re not being challenged or insulted, “yeah, I’m kind of stupid.” And they will mean it. There are indeed people who identify as stupid, who think it’s an immutable part of who they are. These people exist. Perhaps it reflects well upon your intelligence that you can’t see it, that this is incomprehensible to you, but it’s nonetheless real. It really doesn’t. Everyone is below average at something, and many of those people will have an accurate assessment of their abilities. If people start implying that a characteristic you can’t change makes you less valuable as a person, of course it’s insulting. Compare with when posters were using ‘can’t get laid’ as an insult, and people pointed out it was hurtful to those who were struggling to find relationships. I very much doubt that is something anyone identifies with, either. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/734 "2021-08-03T18:23:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > {…} I’m pretty sure Christians are in the minority here {…} _Religion in the United Kingdom (2011 census) Christianity 59.5%_ > **[Religion in the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom)** > > Religion in the United Kingdom (2018 research) > British society is one of the most secularised in the world and in many surveys determining religious beliefs of the population agnosticism, nontheism, atheism, secular humanism, and non-affiliation are views shared by a majority of Britons. Historically, it was dominated for over 1,400 years by various forms of Christianity, which replaced preceding Romano-British religions, including Celtic and Anglo-Saxon paganism. Religious affiliations of ... ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/735 "2021-08-03T18:23:30Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Perhaps it reflects well upon your intelligence that you can’t see it, that this is incomprehensible to you, but it’s nonetheless real. It’s not that I find it incomprehensible, it’s that it doesn’t have anything at all to do with the argument I’m making. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > “Again?” Seriously? That’s not the question you asked in the first place. You’re retconning what you said. You’re right, sorry, I thought I had already used that specific example. But do you at least get the distinction I’m making now? > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > That was a perfectly clear, direct answer to your direct question. Absolutely relevant. No, it wasn’t, because you didn’t understand the question. I suggest trying to read for context. It might help. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Also, you don’t seem to be interested in responding to my thoughts about using educational level as an insult. Because I don’t see - and excuse me for using this term again - how they’re remotely relevant to what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/736 "2021-08-03T18:28:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But do you at least get the distinction I’m making now? Sure. Saying “this movie is stupid” is different than saying “you’re stupid.” I mean, of course. Is that actually a question? > [@Miller](#): > > It’s not that I find it incomprehensible, it’s that it doesn’t have anything at all to do with the argument I’m making. I quite respectfully disagree. It has everything do with the argument you’re making. I think it does, anyway. Or maybe you haven’t stated your argument as clearly as you think you have. Is that a possibility you think worth considering? > [@Miller](#): > > I suggest trying to read for context. Perhaps there’s a course in that at my local community college, right? > [@Miller](#): > > Because I don’t see - and excuse me for using this term again - how they’re remotely relevant to what I’m talking about. Would you ever use someone’s educational attainments (such as they are) as an insult? Would you ever mock community colleges? Would you say, either directly or by implication, that a community college degree is something to be looked down upon? To be condescended to? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/737 "2021-08-03T18:30:48Z")
I’m pretty sure DemonTree meant “in a minority here at SDMB.” My impression is that he/she is right. Of course, if anyone has actual numbers, I’m absolutely prepared to admit that I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/738 "2021-08-03T18:35:16Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Perhaps it reflects well upon your intelligence that you can’t see it, that this is incomprehensible to you, but it’s nonetheless real. It’s worth noting that what’s easily mistaken for intelligence around here can often be better described as: Superiority, dismissiveness, condescension, snide-ness, and contemptuousness. All of us have done it. Some are just better practiced than others. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/739 "2021-08-03T18:39:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Superiority, dismissiveness, condescension, snide-ness, and contemptuousness. > > All of us have done it. Some are just better practiced than others. Yep. Myself included, sometimes, I’m sad to say. But let me put it another way – people often mistake wittiness and cleverness and playing to the crowd for intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/740 "2021-08-03T18:49:02Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’m pretty sure DemonTree meant “in a minority here at SDMB.” > > My impression is that he/she is right. Might depend on how one defines Christian. My impression is that the majority of the board are of Christian heritage; though not all of those are current believers. They may well have some of the back-of-the-head assumptions, though. However, I don’t have any figures either, and doubt that they exist. Some individuals have stated their religious affiliations and/or heritage and/or current identification on these boards, but I think most members haven’t, and even those who have did so in various posts scattered among different threads and forums as well as through different times, and using different terminology; it would be a huge effort to try and pick them out. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/741 "2021-08-03T18:51:16Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > But do you at least get the distinction I’m making now? > > Sure. Saying “this movie is stupid” is different than saying “you’re stupid.” I mean, of course. Is that actually a question? His point is, this is a reasonable statement: _If you say “that movie was so gay”, and a homosexual person overhears you, they would know that you are homophobic and could be insulted_ This is not a reasonable statement: _If you say “that movie was so stupid”, and a person of low intelligence overhears you, they would know that you are dumbphobic and could be insulted_ ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/742 "2021-08-03T18:55:57Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Religion in the United Kingdom (2011 census) Christianity 59.5% “here on the board” is where I think Christians are in the minority. Regardless, both in real life and on the SDMB I see myself - as a non-religious person - as being the one with the privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/743 "2021-08-03T18:57:24Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Sure. Saying “this movie is stupid” is different than saying “you’re stupid.” I mean, of course. Is that actually a question? Okay, so, no, you don’t get the distinction I’m making. I’m not making a distinction between “insulting a person” and “insulting a movie.” I’m making a distinction between using “stupid” as an insult, and using “retard” or “gay” as an insult. The distinction is that there is no social or political identity behind “stupid.” When someone says, “This movie is stupid,” nobody says, “Hey, _I’m_ stupid, and you just offended me.” This is distinct from someone saying, “This movie is gay,” which is highly likely to provoke someone to say, “Hey, _I’m_ gay, and you just offended me.” > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Perhaps there’s a course in that at my local community college, right? Yes, most community colleges have English departments. Reading for context is a skill, and it’s one that can be taught. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Would you ever use someone’s educational attainments (such as they are) as an insult? Would you ever mock community colleges? Would you say, either directly or by implication, that a community college degree is something to be looked down upon? To be condescended to? Not at all. Community colleges are an excellent resource not just for post-primary education, but for post-college adult learning. I’ve attended them myself, and may do so again at some point. Learning is always valuable, and I’d never denigrate someone for seeking to better themselves educationally. Can you explain why you thought this was a question that needed answering? I haven’t said anything at all about the relative value of different types of secondary education, neither in this thread, nor (AFAIK) anywhere else on this board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=38)