# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/804 "2021-08-04T13:26:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Interesting. I don’t see the sense in which @puzzlegal is using the term: an insult that is also indirectly insulting to third parties. I don’t, either, which deeply surprised me. Perhaps the meaning of the word has changed, or maybe I’m just using the wrong word. > [@DemonTree](#): > > But I don’t think it makes sense to ask for a list. If someone thinks less of you for using a term you did not know was stigmatised, or not so seriously, they are being unreasonable. And if you disagree on what the list should be, well, you are free to think less of each other. Exactly. If you use a word that is much more offensive than you realized, the normal flow of the conversation is, “Did you just say XXX?!” “Yes, I did, why do you ask?” “Don’t you know that’s _fill in reason for offensiveness here_?” "Oh, really?! I had no idea. I guess I shouldn’t say that. I’ve seen that exact interchange several times, including with me being the person who said the offensive word. Typically, all parties them move on. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/805 "2021-08-04T13:27:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m sorry to hear that you’re a dishonest debater then did you miss the “if”? I rarely struggle to explain myself and never avoid answering > [@Babale](#): > > If you can show evidence that for hundreds of years people were oppressed based on their weight, you’d gave a point. seriously? you don’t think people are discriminated against for those reasons and have been for a long time? What about class? What about accents? What about intelligence? > [@Babale](#): > > No, but one hurts society more than the other. Individuals _are_ society. A job opportunity denied to a person because of their class is of exactly the same importance as one denied because of gender or race. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/806 "2021-08-04T13:29:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If you can show evidence that for hundreds of years people were oppressed based on their weight, you’d gave a point. > **[Weight-Based Discrimination: The State of the Law and Why it Should be...](https://onlabor.org/weight-based-discrimination-the-state-of-the-law-and-why-it-should-be-rethought/)** > > As it currently stands, Michigan is the only state in the union to explicitly prohibit employment discrimination on the basis of weight. That may change in the coming months, as a bill was recently filed in Massachusetts which seeks to ban... ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/807 "2021-08-04T13:32:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Because we aren’t sitting around in a vacuum coming up with ideas about what may or may not be offensive. Have you been part of a Western culture in the last 250 years? If so, you shouldn’t need the reason why some insults are just insults and others are slurs explained to you. Have you? People have been stigmatised for 100s of years for the majority of the things in that list. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/808 "2021-08-04T13:36:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Exactly. If you use a word that is much more offensive than you realized, the normal flow of the conversation is, “Did you just say XXX?!” “Yes, I did, why do you ask?” “Don’t you know that’s _fill in reason for offensiveness here_ ?” "Oh, really?! I had no idea. I guess I shouldn’t say that. > > I’ve seen that exact interchange several times, including with me being the person who said the offensive word. Typically, all parties them move on. And when someone deliberately uses a word he knows is extremely offensive, then apologises for it when called out (but not to the person he insulted). Is that common too? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/809 "2021-08-04T13:42:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > What is the difference between a slur based on gender and slur based on weight? > > Gender is a category that had been used in our society to oppress one kind of people, making them subservient to another, for thousands of years. Gender slurs perpetuate that. While all that is true… > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > What is the difference between a slur based on gender and slur based on weight? Does one hurt a person less than the other? Personally, I think it’s harmful to denigrate people based on their weight, their height, their level of education, their social class, and a lot of other “group” characteristics, and I respect the user of those slurs less, too. > [@DemonTree](#): > > And when someone deliberately uses a word he knows is extremely offensive, then apologises for it when called out (but not to the person he insulted). Is that common too? That is not something I’ve ever personally witnessed. Perhaps we travel in different circles. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/810 "2021-08-04T13:46:39Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > While all that is true… That’s a very America-centric view. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > That is not something I’ve ever personally witnessed. Perhaps we travel in different circles. It happened earlier in this thread. But it was hardly a surprise to see MrDibble using a misogynistic slur. ETA: You weren’t thinking I encounter people using slurs often in real life, were you? It’s mostly an internet phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/811 "2021-08-04T13:51:03Z")
I am an American, and I haven’t read most of this thread. 🤷‍♀️ But no, I don’t think “people using slurs” is mostly an internet phenomenon. It happens all the time in real life. One of the examples I was thinking of was people standing around chatting, irl, and one of them used the verb “gyp”, and someone else pointed out that it was a slur referencing gypsies. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/812 "2021-08-04T13:57:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You weren’t thinking I encounter people using slurs often in real life, were you? It’s mostly an internet phenomenon. That depends a whole lot on who one’s around in real life. It’s been a very common social phenomenon, among some groups of people, since long before the internet existed; including both people using such terms unthinkingly, and people using them deliberately. One reason some people are so resistant to any suggestion that they should stop using such terms is that they’ve spent their whole lives until recently thinking of such use as “normal.” ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/813 "2021-08-04T14:02:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Exactly. If you use a word that is much more offensive than you realized, the normal flow of the conversation is, “Did you just say XXX?!” “Yes, I did, why do you ask?” “Don’t you know that’s _fill in reason for offensiveness here_ ?” "Oh, really?! I had no idea. I guess I shouldn’t say that. > > I’ve seen that exact interchange several times, including with me being the person who said the offensive word. Typically, all parties them move on. Are we still talking about the Pit here? Because it sounds like a strange exchange for the Pit. Going back to the OP, if a conservative thinks that an insult is out of line, they could tell the other person that their insult was not acceptable in their group, and the people in the Pit would stop and apologize? I’ve never seen this happen. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/814 "2021-08-04T14:10:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I am an American, and I haven’t read most of this thread. So? Being American doesn’t stop you acknowledging that there are many other countries with their own unique histories and social problems and consequently ideas of what is offensive. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But no, I don’t think “people using slurs” is mostly an internet phenomenon. It happens all the time in real life. One of the examples I was thinking of was people standing around chatting, irl, and one of them used the verb “gyp”, and someone else pointed out that it was a slur referencing gypsies. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s been a very common social phenomenon, among some groups of people, since long before the internet existed; including both people using such terms unthinkingly, and people using them deliberately. Perhaps we travel in different circles. > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Going back to the OP, if a conservative thinks that an insult is out of line, they could tell the other person that their insult was not acceptable in their group, and the people in the Pit would stop and apologize? I’ve never seen this happen. 🤣 🤣 🤣  Conservatives are Bad and Wrong, so it’s okay to insult a whole group of people in that case. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/815 "2021-08-04T14:19:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Perhaps we travel in different circles. I don’t deliberately “travel” in circles that use such slurs on purpose. I read a lot, and have certainly seen them in casual use in print, including in books not specifically about such issues. I even now hear them occasionally from people I run into casually; and that was IME more common when I was younger – probably because people are now more likely to object to it. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Conservatives are Bad and Wrong, so it’s okay to insult a whole group of people in that case. With racial, ethnic, comments on physical shape/ability, etc., slurs? Do you have some examples? – I do remember some comments on Trump’s weight; they tended to be called out, though I don’t know that they were called out by conservatives. And if you see such slurs used against conservatives, do you call them out on those grounds? or only on the grounds that conservatives are being insulted? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/816 "2021-08-04T14:20:01Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Conservatives are Bad and Wrong, so it’s okay to insult a whole group of people in that case. Looking at it more seriously, the things @Novelty_Bobble listed are all viewed as bad or lesser by somebody, and therefore worthy of insult. And very often the group so insulted are seen as deserving it, or just as being the ‘other’ who it is okay to express hatred towards. Eg, fat people are deserving of scorn because they lack self-control, poor people are poor because they haven’t worked hard enough, or because they waste their money on booze and gambling, etc, so it’s okay to insult them. Both these factors apply to progressives insulting conservatives. It’s a natural human desire to find an ‘other’, as it helps in-group cohesion. Having barred themselves from treating usual candidates like foreigners as the other, progressives are forced to choose them based on political beliefs or other not-yet-barred characteristics. @Heffalump_and_Roo, you may be interested in this: > **[I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/)** > > \[Content warning: Politics, religion, social justice, spoilers for “The Secret of Father Brown”. This isn’t especially original to me and I don’t claim anything more than to… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/817 "2021-08-04T14:24:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > If you can show evidence that for hundreds of years people were oppressed based on their weight, you’d gave a point. > > seriously? you don’t think people are discriminated against for those reasons and have been for a long time? > What about class? What about accents? What about intelligence? Class is also a thing that people have used to discriminate against other people for a long time, absolutely. However, in our society at least, class is something less intrinsic to you than the state you are in at that time. That doesn’t mean that, say, people demonizing the poor isn’t a huge problem. It absolutely is. If we take the attitude that poverty is a moral failure then it’s easy to refuse to help anyone who is poor. But that’s really not the same thing as a “slur”. Accents aren’t something people discriminate against in and of itself, that’s just a marker for ethnic discrimination. Intelligence, I’m not sure what you mean there. If you mean slurs against people with a mental disability, I already included that. If you just mean people who aren’t as smart - no, I don’t think we have any kind of systemic discrimination against stupid people. If anything, American culture looks down at those who are too educated or smart. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/818 "2021-08-04T14:24:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > No, but one hurts society more than the other. > > Individuals _are_ society. A job opportunity denied to a person because of their class is of exactly the same importance as one denied because of gender or race. Sure, but we aren’t talking about job opportunities, we are taking about slurs. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/819 "2021-08-04T14:28:06Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > And very often the group so insulted are seen as deserving it, or just as being the ‘other’ who it is okay to express hatred towards. Eg, fat people are deserving of scorn because they lack self-control, poor people are poor because they haven’t worked hard enough, or because they waste their money on booze and gambling, etc, so it’s okay to insult them. Yes, that’s the problem. And part of the reason it’s a problem is that such slurs encourage those attitudes. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Both these factors apply to progressives insulting conservatives. Do they? I don’t think insults based on taking a specific political position are in the same category. They’re based on specific behavior. I do think some on this board tend to use the term “conservative” to include positions and behavior that until recently weren’t considered conservative at all; but then, I think that’s not limited to the left. > [@Babale](#): > > we aren’t talking about job opportunities, we are taking about slurs. One of the reasons slurs matter is that encouraging the attitude behind them is likely to lead to affecting job opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/820 "2021-08-04T14:33:48Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Are we still talking about the Pit here? Because it sounds like a strange exchange for the Pit. The pit is a subset of the world, but I have never been talking specifically about the pit. And this thread isn’t specifically about the pit, either. It’s about whether it’s good or bad if the board as a whole is driving away conservative posters. But I wasn’t commenting on that topic, I was just posting about a side issue that arose. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Perhaps we travel in different circles. I rather think we do. I travel in circles where it’s normal to call out an accidental slur. Perhaps you travel in circles where no one ever uses slurs. I also overhear slurs on public transit, while waiting in lines, and in any number of other places. Perhaps that’s a more common problem in the US than it is where you live. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/821 "2021-08-04T14:34:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Accents aren’t something people discriminate against in and of itself, that’s just a marker for ethnic discrimination. That’s nonsense. They’re a marker for class, and some regional accents are looked down on in-and-of themselves. I’m very skeptical that that isn’t true in America also. > [@Babale](#): > > If you just mean people who aren’t as smart - no, I don’t think we have any kind of systemic discrimination against stupid people. I don’t even know how you can think that. Have you lived at all? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/822 "2021-08-04T14:36:03Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Accents aren’t something people discriminate against in and of itself, that’s just a marker for ethnic discrimination. > > That’s nonsense. They’re a marker for class, and some regional accents are looked down on in-and-of themselves. I’m very skeptical that that isn’t true in America also. Sure, but the issue is that you’re one of them dirty accent-having-class members. Not that you have an accent. The accent is just how I know you’re a dirty lower classman. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/823 "2021-08-04T14:36:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I also overhear slurs on public transit, while waiting in lines, and in any number of other places. Perhaps that’s a more common problem in the US than it is where you live. Ah, people don’t talk while queuing or on public transport in the UK. People almost never chat with strangers full stop. So perhaps we really do have different experiences. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I rather think we do. I travel in circles where it’s normal to call out an accidental slur. Perhaps you travel in circles where no one ever uses slurs. I’m sure people must use them occasionally, but among friends, no, not often, and I can’t think of when I heard one called out. People with lots in common probably mostly agree on what is okay and what isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=42)