# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1125 "2021-08-07T17:36:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I get what you’re saying but it seems to me that the right-wing world view existed pre-Trump. Trump’s rise was a result of that already established world view. Trump exploited it. Became its poster child. We’re now using Trumpism as shorthand for everything conservative. If you are a conservative it’s my opinion that you need to address this deeper. It existed as of a certain date? OK. What does that mean about trolling here and refusing to be someone with a real opinion, but rather just dragging “others” opinions? If trump was not a new innovation then it seems to me there is a lot more conservative reckoning to be done, and not less. If he was able to radicalize the movement: Then there is more, and certainly not less, reckoning to be done. Being “anti anti trump” doesn’t advance any conservative world view. It’s just narcissistic trolling. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1126 "2021-08-07T17:42:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It is worth reminding ourselves from time to time that some conservatives - Lincoln Project comes to mind - stood in vocal and highly critical opposition to Trumpism. Still do, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t know if conservatives on this board are credited with being Lincoln Project type conservatives. Perhaps they do not deserve to be. I just know that I don’t hear much acknowledgement of that from progressives. I don’t know how much I have in common with Lincoln Project style conservatives. I just note that there are some that are not Trumpist. This is just another example of a lot of familiar noise and no signal. Oooh there’s so many different kinds of people… out there… Lincoln project ads were good because conservatives have been involved in vicious politics forever. But lincoln project folks are just as confused, disturbed as anyone else would be and they are trying to launder their own part in the moral cratering of their party. Of course they are upset, and want to protect their images, careers, dignity, etc. The right will try to take a bath in holy water and pretend to innocence in all things. They do it here all day long. In the end we need to talk about us here in the SDMB. Who are we? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1127 "2021-08-07T17:52:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’ve both argued, IIRC, that Trump and his administration have not in fact violated norms and even laws any more than Democrats and liberals have, and that Democrats are largely to blame for the excesses of Trump and Trumpism (i.e. that the election of someone like Trump was an inevitable and even partially justifiable backlash to the sins of Democrats and liberals). I accept that they’ve argued this. No need to look for cites. I’m not trying to say that these are valid positions. I’m tempted to agree that they are largely, if not entirely wrong. But how harmful are those views and do they deserve to be ostracized as posters for holding and expressing them? Dems and Repubs have been accusing one another of being what’s wrong with the world since the beginning of American nationhood. I’d be much more concerned if they expressed support for actual Trump policies and bigotry, like child separation and birtherism, for example. I guess I see their views of both-sideism about as harmful as belief in flat earthism. Stupid, but otherwise harmless. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1128 "2021-08-07T17:59:41Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What does that mean about trolling here and refusing to be someone with a real opinion, but rather just dragging “others” opinions? I have a “real opinion”. I’ve stated it repeatedly. I find it tedious to continue to need to ‘show my papers’ in order to have a conversation in which I might disagree with the prevailing opinion or position. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1129 "2021-08-07T18:00:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … and that Democrats are largely to blame for the excesses of Trump and Trumpism (i.e. that the election of someone like Trump was an inevitable and even partially justifiable backlash to the sins of Democrats and liberals). Gotta say, it’s true that neoliberalism abandoned labor, and that wasn’t without consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1130 "2021-08-07T18:03:27Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Wouldn’t that qualify you as Libertarian? It would if Libertarians hadn’t gone off the rails like everyone else. They believe in too many stupid things now, such as completely open borders and getting rid of police for me to call myself one of them. I’m one of many independents who pretty much can’t stand any of the organized parties any more. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1131 "2021-08-07T18:03:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > In the end we need to talk about us here in the SDMB. Who are we? Who do you think we are? Who should we be? Should we try to define ourselves by who we can do without? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1132 "2021-08-07T18:20:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Who do you think we are No - who do you think [YOU are,](https://youtu.be/K-YJeGvsdJ0?t=8) hm? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1133 "2021-08-07T18:21:59Z")
We have to be with trump or against him, here, and not play footsie. We have to be introspective about our selves. You post a lot explaining a lot about who is wrong on the left. Is this what you consider your “conservative position”? Those kind of posts don’t seem to me to have any position at all. They are just dragging another point of view. After 5 years of BS that they brought us to as a movement, we need more from conservatives than their unexamined prejudices, and trolling about how innocent they can portray themselves. What a bunch of shit. Look over there!! Someone on the internet is wrong! Look I found someone wronger than me! Please help stop the con movement from it’s own infantile death spiral. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1134 "2021-08-07T18:27:48Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > the moral cratering of their party. Republicans and cons get a grip. This is you. Unless you can hold power anti democratically you will be losers. If you do hold it it will be because your party prevented certain americans from voting. If this is your party how can you be so complacent posting in here about how liberals are wrong about ANYTHING? OK so you reject trump. You think we’re going to go back to trickle down economics and grifting, like trump never even happened? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1135 "2021-08-07T18:37:16Z")
I think it’s very harmful, at least in aggregate. The excesses of Trump and Trumpism demand that we don’t treat their defense, rhetorically speaking, as just another political disagreement. For society to really get past the disgrace of the last 4 years (and especially the attempts to overturn our democratic system), these sorts defenses, justifications and rationalizations, should be as beyond the pale as defenses/etc. of Jim Crow or the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1136 "2021-08-07T18:37:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Dems and Repubs have been accusing one another of being what’s wrong with the world since the beginning of American nationhood. Both sideism is laughable now. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1137 "2021-08-07T18:41:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But how harmful are those views and do they deserve to be ostracized as posters for holding and expressing them? They are very harmful if you define harm as insurrection. I thought Republicans did that almost reflexively. If those are ignorant posters then why shouldn’t they be reputationally punished. Did you check the mission statement on the way in here? What solution do you propose other than the one we have? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1138 "2021-08-07T19:16:13Z")
So do you think there are any tolerable conservative values left worth consideration/hearing? Not in the abstract but in today’s polarized climate. If so, have you heard any conservative posters express them here? Or is all conservatism Trumpism by another name? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1139 "2021-08-07T19:24:00Z")
Hell, when your side no longer believes in freedom of speech or association and when your side can’t figure out basic biology or economics and when your side engages in billions of dollars of burning looting and general mayhem during a pandemic using a flimsy excuse of so called social justice you can’t really point fingers anymore. The progressive left is the greatest danger to the west because they sugar coat their poisonous, destructive, hypocritical self loathing philosophy with superficial pleasantries. The moderate left are naive and useful idiots. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1140 "2021-08-07T19:28:42Z")
Bullshit as usual, one side is the one that perfected that multiplex projection of yours. > [@A debate on where America was before Trump. Were we really in decline?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-debate-on-where-america-was-before-trump-were-we-really-in-decline/928648/159): > > When did America start declining? These charts may help! [[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/ywnjAkRE7gUFi5436)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/HM1GWer6TNL2gNDx5)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/tA1pdFTgiQwqLMK1A)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/nVoSGCKsNZ28vmbq6)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/wuADfa3McZkPxKvh6)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/P7J9H4MZxZPdwQrq9)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/uKQAuWHd3PCnCZw97)[[Google Photos] ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ad1vr48XhrdhhAaS7)[[Go…](https://photos.app.goo.gl/vA7ZComGoREzsTp7A) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1141 "2021-08-07T19:41:15Z")
You’ve just made @iiandyiiii case better than any response or cite he could have provided to my last post. It isn’t that your argument is _entirely_ void of substance. It’s that your side’s denial of science, promotion of conspiracy theories & alternative facts, and undermining of the election and democratic norms render any point you think you might have made to absolute rubbish. I think you said in the past that you don’t support Trump or Trumpism. But based on this post, I find it hard to see any daylight between your position and that of a Trump supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1142 "2021-08-07T19:49:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hell, when your side no longer believes in freedom of speech… Well, it _is_ too bad the WH can’t reciprocate what’s linked, here, for [Steve Doocey’s idiotic shenanigans.](https://www.newsweek.com/reporter-removed-kevin-mccarthy-press-conference-after-1-6-commission-question-video-1616772) > [@octopus](#): > > …and when your side can’t figure out basic biology… I’ll refer back to the earlier post on Bigfoot hawtness. > [@octopus](#): > > …or economics… Like the 2017 Tax Cut. Rad. > [@octopus](#): > > …and when your side engages in **billions** of dollars of burning looting and general mayhem during a pandemic… 🤣 And cite bolded. > [@octopus](#): > > The progressive left is the greatest danger to the west because they sugar coat their poisonous, destructive, hypocritical self loathing philosophy with superficial pleasantries Good thing, then (?) dems couch things in good-stuffery as opposed to Republicans, being, well, a lot more up front about it. So _decieving_ of demonrats, like that, yanno! > [@octopus](#): > > The moderate left are naive and useful idiots. And not at all like That Asshole’s base, no siree. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1143 "2021-08-07T19:55:50Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > We have to be with trump or against him, here, and not play footsie. Or we could be grownups and look at each issue individually, recognizing that even terrible leaders sometimes do something worth supporting. For example, the Abraham Accords were a very good thing, and Democrats appear to be rejecting or ignoring them for the simple reason that they were a Trump thing. Biden undid Trump’s border controls because Orange Man Bad, and now there is a disaster at the border about ten times greater than what Trump had. I’m still waiting for AOC to put on her white crying suit and put on another performance at the gates of one of those new facilities that have been opened to house all the kids in cages. I can think Biden is a lying, plagiarizing, unintelligent bully who has lost a step due to age, while still approving of his stance against defunding the police and being tough on China. I can generally like right-wing policies while admitting that Donald Trump is a sleazy, lying misogynist who abuses people verbally as a standard tactic and stabs his friends in the back when they are no longer useful to him. And you can like Democrats while admitting that perhaps spending several trillion dollars on ‘infrastructure’ while the economy is overheating and there are resource shortages and inflation is not such a good idea right now, and that Andrew Cuomo shouldn’t have put all those COVID patients in nursing homes and covered it up, or serially groped his female staff. Blind partisanship is for suckers. If you always reflexively take ‘your’ team’s side on every issue, you are being played. And that’s why you need conservatives here - to occasionally remind you that there is another point of view so you don’t become a blind idealogue. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1144 "2021-08-07T20:02:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > . . . and when your side engages in billions of dollars of burning looting and general mayhem during a pandemic using a flimsy excuse of so called social justice . . . You just lost me. And I was kind of on your side, but this is unbelievable bullshit, _and you know it_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=58)