# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1266 "2021-08-08T12:44:57Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Surely this depends on how UKIP deals with the problem of excluding transpeople from women’s spaces? Plus, some centrist and left wing politicians once said mean things about Israel, which is basically the same thing as violently storming Parliament, so both sides are basically the same. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1267 "2021-08-08T12:54:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You advocate discriminating against people for innate characteristics. If you oppose discriminating against people for innate characteristics, you should be opposing women’s spaces, abolishing women’s sports and scholarships, and advocating for unisex prisons, bathrooms and locker rooms. If it’s really NBD, we should be like Starship Troopers and have everyone get naked together. Because all those things are discrimination. It would be very very bad for women if you ended that discrimination, but that obviously isn’t of any importance to you, since you have declared harm to women to be irrelevant in your decisions. > [@BigT](#): > > Imagine this happened in the UK. UKIP loses the election, and so they storm Parliament with guns and other weapons and/or they gang up on the Governor General, planning to hold him hostage until he declares UKIP to have a majority government, despite losing. > > Are you really going to tell me that you’d think their followers would deserve equal respect to everyone else? I’d think they were idiots and should go to prison. But I wouldn’t feel a pressing desire to attack them personally, no. I guess I don’t see it as a real threat to democracy, since they never had any chance of achieving their goal. The loss of trust in society and people disappearing into their own media bubble where misinformation can spread freely is much more concerning, and is what lead to the attack anyway. (And there’s no Governor General in the UK; it’s the Queen who opens parliament, appoints the PM etc. Attempting to kidnap the Queen is probably treason or something.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1268 "2021-08-08T12:58:50Z")
Conservative Denialism of Reality in Three Acts: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51365735840_f2106c79fa_b.jpg "Alley COVID") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51365735840/) [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51364722501_3b6a74911a_b.jpg "Alley COVID") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51364722501/) [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51364944838_35a73d244b_b.jpg "Alley COVID") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51364944838/) I mean, they literally cannot manage their lives by their own principles. How should we trust the ideologies shared by Octopus and Scott Apley on _anything_? If an anti-masker, anti-vaxxer, pro thrift, pro capitalism, anti-immigration, pro private health insurance guy can’t even prove the worthiness of their beliefs in their own lives, why should we trust that ideology with ours? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1269 "2021-08-08T13:01:49Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > OK, will get back to it later today. Have somebody coming over shortly to help deal with a broken down work van. 👍  ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1270 "2021-08-08T13:16:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Wow. Octo has gone full ONAN, hasn’t he? I assume you mean OANN - Onan is a character from the Bible and the word for masturbation in Hebrew. Which actually fits quote well with Octopus’ behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1271 "2021-08-08T13:19:26Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Attempting to kidnap the Queen is probably treason or something It’s not kidnapping, it’s how you get shit done. Ever hear of the Magna Carta? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1272 "2021-08-08T13:27:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Political hypocrisy exists on both sides. But this is an entirely mundane point. And it hides a big important thing relating to this issue – Trump’s policy wasn’t just criticized because it was Trump, but because it was bigoted, purposefully cruel, and highly immoral. The entirely mundane point is reminding people who don’t need reminding that political hypocrisy exists on both sides. Another mundane point is that Trump policies were worse when nobody defended Trump’s policies in the post to which you replied. Stop stating the obvious to skirt the actual non-mundane point which is that the Biden administration has struggled with their immigration and border policies and has also kept media from having access to those facilities in the way that he promised he would. And don’t go telling me I’m saying that Biden is as bad as Trump. He isn’t and it isn’t what I’m saying, at all. Maybe start with unhypocritically acknowledging that. Yes, immigration is a long standing issue. Yes it’s a very difficult problem that only seems to be getting worse. But your mundane point about political hypocrisy of both sides is looking awfully like an intentional excusal of failure of the Biden administration and the hypocrisy of the left in failing to address and acknowledge this issue. Don’t ask me what I think Biden should do about this issue. It’s above my pay grade and asking me (or others who make this criticism) is not a clever retort. It’s a transparent distraction and change of subject. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1273 "2021-08-08T13:28:54Z")
I haven’t said anything about Biden on this issue. And I have no problem at all with criticizing Biden on this issue. I think your point is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1274 "2021-08-08T13:36:14Z")
Yes, you did. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What could Biden do about the border? Please be specific. Lay out the policies that would solve the problem that no administration has been able to solve in decades. Then you continued to mock and avoid opportunity to engage or at least acknowledge that Sam made a valid criticism. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1275 "2021-08-08T13:38:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I assume you mean OANN - Onan is a character from the Bible and the word for masturbation in Hebrew. > > Which actually fits quote well with Octopus’ behavior. 😏 … ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1276 "2021-08-08T13:41:03Z")
That question was not asked to Sam. That question was asked because I suspected the poster in question was trolling, and I wanted them to actually show they were serious. And, not surprisingly, they demonstrated once again they were trolling. I didn’t characterize the Biden policy on the border in any way in that post. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1277 "2021-08-08T13:48:37Z")
I’ll amend my statement - I have no problem with good faith criticism of Biden, on this or any other issue. The post I responded to with that question was not in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1278 "2021-08-08T13:55:22Z")
My bad. The question was asked by **DT** not **Sam**. In what way was the post you responded to not made in good faith? (quoted in full below): > [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@asahi](#): > > > > The U.S. border crisis is real, and it has a lot to do with a growing ecological/political crisis in the Americas that is only going to get worse. The difference is that Trump used the crisis to inflict cruelty as a deterrent against migration. In a lot of cases, yes, the living conditions still suck for many of these migrants but it’s not because Biden is deliberately using them to make examples of them in an attempt to deter migration. Intentions matter. > > You act like there’s nothing that can be done about it, as if policies have no effect. But that’s not true. And Biden would be a lot more likely to do something about it if the press held him to account. It makes it seem like it’s just another exercise in partisan politics. The last sentence even addresses what you alluded to earlier with your observation about hypocrisy of both sides. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1279 "2021-08-08T13:59:11Z")
I only suspected bad faith, due to the poster in question, as well as the lack of specifics. My suspicion was confirmed (or close enough) when they abandoned the issue. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1280 "2021-08-08T14:14:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I only suspected bad faith, due to the poster in question. My suspicion was confirmed (or close enough) when they abandoned the issue. I submit that your response was made in bad faith. You have every right to respond (or not) in any way you like. But you could have inquired further rather than assume bad faith. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1281 "2021-08-08T14:15:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > DemonTree seems to me to be improving lately. Well, except [the bits where](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1102) she ~~lies about~~ misrepresents what posters say in other threads and when called on it and asked to clarify, _crickets_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1282 "2021-08-08T14:21:42Z")
I no longer give people the benefit of the doubt when they’ve demonstrated dishonesty again and again. And I did inquire further. That was the entirety of that post. As to your accusations about me, fuck off. I don’t care about vague and unsupported accusations when the critic abandons all attempts to gain clarification. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1283 "2021-08-08T14:27:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I submit that your response was made in bad faith. Of course it was. I wrote about the boarder, you wrote about the boarder; Andy has nothing to say so he deflects. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1284 "2021-08-08T14:30:31Z")
Fuck off, liar. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1285 "2021-08-08T14:33:40Z")
As to boarders, I’d be happy to talk about them! We call them tenants in the US. We’ve been very lucky in our boarders - they pay on time and haven’t caused any trouble at all. (this is an example of gentle mockery, for the snowflakes among us) 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=65)