# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1466 "2021-08-10T17:49:01Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > the politicians who fought those decisions. Hm. Anonymous, John Kelley, Brad Raffensperger. Deb Birx, all the names. The story is a depressing one. They were not up to their jobs. They had a lot more agency than you are admitting though. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1467 "2021-08-10T17:52:37Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And all through here you’re conflating “Republican” and “conservative” as if they were identical. They’re not. I’m talking about anyone who caters to that base. There is a shell game to confuse who does what. Rand Paul is out there shouting Gestapo. How do you know who benefits from what crazy thing anymore? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1468 "2021-08-10T17:53:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > There is a shell game to confuse who does what. There is indeed. That’s why we have the current powers in the Republican party claiming to be conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1469 "2021-08-10T18:07:20Z")
Lol. The ideology which brought us this: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50993256307_864126d2c2_b.jpg "1609610894560") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/50993256307/) Is the same ideology which brought us this: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51325209647_c312d140bb_b.jpg "2021-07-21\_09-13-48") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51325209647/) Trumpism is Reaganism without the friendly grandfather. Trumpism is Bushism without the compassion. Trumpism is Bushism2 without the administratve competence. Trumpism _is_ conservatism, just with the branding and marketing waived. _Thirty years ago_ Bush was trying to brand conservatism as "compassionate’. And he failed, not because of the messenger, but because a pig with lipstick is still a pig. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1470 "2021-08-10T20:11:26Z")
You understand it just fine. It’s just embarrassing to have it pointed out that your side is more concerned with tearing down statues of long dead presidents while profiting from current slavery and genocide. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1471 "2021-08-10T20:14:06Z")
Exactly. But the decision the left makes is rational. It costs nothing to join a mob and loot and burn stuff in the name of social justice. It actually earns them some shoes and a flat screen if they are clever about it. While taking a stand against communist totalitarianism means giving up their iphones and those looted shoes and flat screens. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1472 "2021-08-10T20:16:54Z")
But, Teddy Roosevelt? Who has even hinted at that, other than perhaps some MAGAt who wants to replace him with CFSG? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1473 "2021-08-10T20:17:46Z")
> **[Removing Teddy Roosevelt's statue is the worst kind of pandering | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/opinions/teddy-roosevelt-statue-removal-pandering-jennings/index.html)** > > Scott Jennings writes that the removal of Theodore Roosevelt's statue from New York City's Natural History Museum is an out-of-touch, blatant attempt to denigrate someone who deserves to be remembered fondly instead of as some irredeemable monster. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1474 "2021-08-10T20:22:06Z")
Lol. I show that the modern, Reagan-era and beyond conservative movement has brought declining health expectations to a third of a billion people, Octo still whines about statues. Sorry. Statue. 1 statue. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1475 "2021-08-10T20:23:51Z")
The symbolism in that composition is, you have to admit, quite deplorable. It does actually disgust me, that they are using the image of TR as a sort of shill for Manifest Destiny. So, it is not so much a question of “tearing down a statue of TR” as it is rehabilitating him. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1476 "2021-08-10T20:28:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lol. I show that the modern, Reagan-era and beyond conservative movement has brought declining health expectations to a third of a billion people, Octo still whines about statues. > > Sorry. Statue. 1 statue. To be fair, his playbook is rather limited. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1477 "2021-08-10T20:37:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It costs nothing to join a mob and loot and burn stuff in the name of social justice. It actually earns them some shoes and a flat screen if they are clever about it. While taking a stand against communist totalitarianism means giving up their iphones and those looted shoes and flat screens. They’re not _actually_ a hive mind, you know. What makes you think the looters and burners give a fig for social justice, or anything else beyond the chance to get a free flat-screen TV and an evening’s entertainment? I think you’ve got more of a point if you’re talking about the activists who choose what to campaign for, and journalists who choose what to cover and thus publicise. Unfortunately it is human nature to prefer gestures that cost us nothing to an actual sacrifice, so ordinary people need real encouragement to embrace the latter. And IMO it’s misleading to imply they are removing that statue because of who its subject is. I changed my mind as soon as I saw it - that thing is dodgy as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1478 "2021-08-10T20:58:12Z")
And the objection to the statue doesn’t appear to have anything to do with Teddy Roosevelt. They don’t want it taken down because Roosevelt was a bad man, they want it taken down because it’s a bad statue. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1479 "2021-08-11T00:46:55Z")
Holy shit, I reached the end. What a struggle. @drad_dog Usually I am on board with you, but I really think your squabble with both @Oredigger77 and now @thorny_locust is not the best look. Oredigger reminds me of conservatives from 20+ years ago that I could actually have a conversation with; they were usually thoughtful and intelligent, just had something fundamentally broken in their heads that made them not see that my positions were inherently superior ( 😉 ). We may disagree on policy positions, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he disagrees with _reality_, the way modern Republicans do. Your insistence that he answer for every loon that brands themselves a “conservative” while espousing absolutely bat-shit reactionary (as in, _not conservative_) positions just doesn’t make much sense. @octopus Thanks for alerting me to the tragic leftist-Maoist-Stalinist plot to remove that Teddy Roosevelt statue. I wasn’t aware of it previously; and that statue is fucking awful, and should go. Replace it with just a “Teddy looking badass while giving a speech after being shot” statue or something, not a colonialist’s wet dream in bronze. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1480 "2021-08-11T00:49:01Z")
… eh, it sounded better in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1481 "2021-08-11T00:51:07Z")
Hey, I thought it was funny! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1482 "2021-08-11T00:53:25Z")
‘Team WokeForce Alpha’ was pretty good. I’ll have to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1483 "2021-08-11T01:41:57Z")
Alright, perhaps that one particular statue is not the best example. The point still stands that the American left is far more concerned with scoring points with safe virtue signalling such as tearing down a statue or rioting in dem run cities then with antagonizing their CCP allies. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1484 "2021-08-11T01:44:35Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Your insistence that he answer for every loon that brands themselves a “conservative” while espousing absolutely bat-shit reactionary (as in, _not conservative_ ) positions just doesn’t make much sense. I never did that. I am asking for conservatives to be thoughtful about why their party went crazy. If you can’t do that in this thread where can you do it? The problem is that both sideism will harm us now. It’s not 20 years ago. There is so much batshittery that trying to square the circle so everyone gets along is a little ridiculous now. I don’t believe that conservatives can be pristine and pretend this is not their republican party. We’re supposed to be thoughtful here. It got taken over and there is a scary base that Dems get threatened with every time they want to fix a bridge or do something sane. It’s monty python out there. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1485 "2021-08-11T01:46:30Z")
Taking down the statues of civil war traitors and losers is long long overdue. No one is buying that it’s the biggest thing they do. It’s taking care of some unfinished business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=75)