# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1586 "2021-08-17T15:03:06Z")
For the record, two of the biggest whiners about conservative thought not getting respect around here (@Sam_Stone and @octopus ) both want us to believe that the situation in Afghanistan was caused by pronoun choices or diversity training. This is apparently the height of conservative thought this place needs to foster. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1587 "2021-08-17T15:07:19Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > For the record, two of the biggest whiners about conservative thought not getting respect around here (@Sam_Stone and @octopus ) both want us to believe that the situation in Afghanistan was caused by pronoun choices or diversity training. Meanwhile, the Taliban are entirely focused on military and economic issues, and spend no time worrying about their stance on social policies at all, which is why they were so efficiently able to outperform the US in Afghanistan! Wait, that’s not true at all. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1588 "2021-08-17T17:23:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait, that’s not true at all. No, conservatives think that the Taliban have the _right_ stance on social policy. Men fight. Women stay at home. Because men can’t fight as well when women are around. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1589 "2021-08-17T17:26:08Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > No, conservatives think that the Taliban have the _right_ stance on social policy. True, they probably agree with @octopus on pronouns (and a lot else too) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1590 "2021-08-17T20:37:11Z")
There’s basically 3 possibilities: 1. Bat coronavirus modified to be more infectious in humans (aka risky gain-of-function research) that escaped from lab 2. Unmodified bat coronavirus being studied in Wuhan lab that escaped 3. Bat coronavirus that jumped to some other species that was being sold at Wuhan wet market, and infected people there (1) is less likely because although they were doing the gain-of-function research at Wuhan, it was not being done on Coronaviruses (at least not officially), and scientists who studied the Covid-19 virus haven’t found any markers that would support the idea. (2) Is pretty plausible, given researchers were definitely studying bat coronaviruses in the Wuhan lab, and unlike many other diseases, it would not be immediately obvious if this one escaped; in most people, the symptoms resemble the common cold. (3) Certainly possible. If you think this is more plausible then you can come up with the arguments in favour. If I could, I’d edit my previous post to make it clear I meant (2) and not (1), but I can’t. Now that you understand what I meant, do you agree with me? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1591 "2021-08-17T20:45:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > If I could, I’d edit my previous post to make it clear I meant (2) and not (1), but I can’t. Now that you understand what I meant, do you agree with me? Oh sure, a naturally-occurring virus that was transmitted via a lab leak is entirely plausible. The word “originated” was rather ambiguous, hence my confusion. Which is not to say that animal-to-human transmission is implausible. I am aware of the current theories regarding the origins of AIDS, for example, or bird flu. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1592 "2021-08-17T20:56:54Z")
I could have made it clearer, but I was replying to a post contrasting direct animal-to-human transmission, so I didn’t think to. It’s really hard to think of all the different ways people can (mis)interpret my posts beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1593 "2021-08-17T21:08:42Z")
Somehow, _unmodified bat coronavirus being studied in Wuhan lab that escaped_ is more plausible than _bat coronavirus ~~that jumped to some other species that was being sold~~ infected people at Wuhan wet market_ . . . despite the extra step? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1594 "2021-08-17T23:55:48Z")
And the other examples we have of animal to human transmission, including Swine flu, Ebola, and H1N1. But, sure, a lab leak is the most likely. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1595 "2021-08-18T00:18:50Z")
I want to highlight this exchange, in one of the many Afghanistan threads, between **Martini\_Enfield** and myself, and **DemonTree** ’s attempt at a “gotcha!” moment: > [@Have we morally failed Afghanistan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/81): > > > [@Have we morally failed Afghanistan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/80): > > > > They’d be wrong to be opposed to even considering essentially annexing a country in an Afghanistan-like scenario on ideological “But that’s wrooooong” grounds, IMO. > > I appreciate your efforts to represent how _you think_ “woke social justice types” think. Unfortunately, I believe more effort is required if you want to get it right. Because on the one hand you’ve highlighted a pretty good reason why such efforts at annexation are maybe not something we should do. But then you’ve specifically discounted the possibility that “woke social justice types” (again, the words you chose to use to describe your envisioned opposition) might base their objections in those _perfectly reasonable_ grounds. > > No, it has to be “But that’s wrooooong” grounds. Sure. > [@Have we morally failed Afghanistan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/86): > > > [@Have we morally failed Afghanistan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-we-morally-failed-afghanistan/948636/81): > > > > I appreciate your efforts to represent how _you think_ “woke social justice types” think. Unfortunately, I believe more effort is required if you want to get it right. > > Just remember this the next time you see other posters speculating about conservatives/Republicans/Trump supporters. Same shit, different day. Let me see if I can unpack this. We’ve got: **Martini\_Enfield** putting forward a perfectly valid reason why people might think it would be a bad idea to annex Afghanistan. But of course “woke social justice types” are just emotional wah-wah babies (or words to that affect) and that’s why _they_ would oppose annexing Afghanistan. **My response** is to highlight how curious it is (here, in the pit, I’ll go ahead and call his post what it is: bad faith, disingenuous, shit-posting-borderline-trolling) that he would use such loaded language, effectively mocking “woke social justice types” by use of the label alone. I also question how/why he would discount the possibility that these “woke social justice types” might in fact have a good reason to be opposed to annexation, particularly as the one he puts forward seems to rely on premises that I suspect would be shared by people on the left (that annexation would lead to an unending insurgency and that would, at least implicitly, be a bad thing to have to deal with). **DemonTree** then responds to my critique of martini’s incredibly disingenuous and bad faith argument with words to the effect of: “Oh, seeeee! Doesn’t feel so good when it’s conservatives doing it people on _your side_, eh? Now you know how it feels to be accused of holding to positions for stupid reasons!” /summary But you see, **DemonTree** , that **completely misses the point**. This isn’t an instance of diverging facts, with one side chanting “Fake Newz!” and “sheeple!” in response to well-sourced scientific claims and the other side accusing them of being deluded/ignorant/buying into or spouting propaganda. This is an instance where we are to believe that some how, even with shared premises (the whole thing about unending insurgencies being “bad” and all–a strong disincentive to certain courses of action) and perhaps even a shared conclusion (that maybe we shouldn’t _annex_ Afghanistan), **Martini\_Enfield** , conservative jackwad, is just CONVINCED that “woke social justice types” couldn’t have arrived at that perfectly sound conclusion through _reason_. Because even where there may be common ground, he can’t possibly contemplate that “woke social justice types” might arrive at their shared conclusion through logic. So the equivalent left to right argument would be if I were to put forward the proposition that: “I can see how some people might be opposed to kicking puppies because it would be needlessly cruel, and we should generally avoid doing needlessly cruel things, but if a CONSERVATIVE were to come out against puppy-kicking, it’s probably because they somehow have tied puppy-kicking into some whacked-out QAnon-like conspiracy theory involving ‘democrat politicians’ feasting off the life forces of puppies as practice for then doing the same to children. Stupid fascists!” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1596 "2021-08-18T00:20:29Z")
I don’t want to get into a lengthy debate about origins. Those articles seem interesting and do make the lab leak seem a little more probable. I’m still going with natural origin, though I’m not as confident as I was. My main point is that Octopus was making fun of “the woke hive mind” or whatever insult he’s thinking of for thinking animal origin is at all possible. There’s no way to know for sure at this point. That’s the last I have to say about this hijack. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1597 "2021-08-18T00:21:31Z")
Who knew posting on forums was a CCP version of microturkering. How much you making? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1598 "2021-08-18T00:33:00Z")
You still owe me a reply, > [@octopus](#): > > {…} I’m not confused by 2nd grade biology {…} > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Tell us what you really mean? > (I mean it’s not like it’s not clear to some of us, but surely you can actually defend your position once it’s been made clear . . . right?) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1599 "2021-08-18T00:41:43Z")
Bzzzzz! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1600 "2021-08-18T00:41:46Z")
It’s simple. Humans live in a deterministic universe and are governed by physical law. One’s perception of reality is not an obligation on the rest of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1601 "2021-08-18T00:42:25Z")
Shouldn’t you be firing up the ovens or something? Aren’t you eager for the great purge? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1602 "2021-08-18T00:42:36Z")
_“I can believe in magic unicorns if I want and I don’t want people to call me nutso.”_ Um, okay. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1603 "2021-08-18T00:43:22Z")
Not the great purge; the great resistance. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1604 "2021-08-18T00:44:06Z")
My mistake! But be careful with the nutso unless you’ve checked your database on who is afflicted with what. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1605 "2021-08-18T00:45:23Z")
Just shut the fuck up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=81)