# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1726 "2021-08-19T14:57:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You mean that is should be obvious that you meant the exact opposite of what you actually said? I already explained what I meant: > [@DemonTree](#): > > What is true is that if you step too far outside the ideological lines, there will be a significant number of posters who attack you - enough that you can’t ignore them. Or if you want me to put it more precisely: when discussing politics and many other topics, it seems to be impossible to disagree significantly with the board consensus without having _some_ posters vehemently oppose and even hate you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1727 "2021-08-19T15:01:21Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@steronz](#): > > > > What you’re upset about, then, is that certain people didn’t spend enough time _humoring_ this possibility – talking about it, agreeing emphatically that sure, it was possible, putting focus back on China and the WHO. But the response to that is quoted in your own post here, when Fauci says, “Who cares?” > > This is an egregious misrepresentation of what I said. I am ‘upset’ that the media and public health officials made a great effort to claim it was extremely unlikely, including headlines declaring it was ‘debunked’, and anyone who disagreed was literally censored from social media. I am even more ‘upset’ that this hush-up may have made it harder for the actual investigators to discover the truth. See, I don’t see this as a misrepresentation as to what you said. I take this as giving you the benefit of the doubt. @steronz made the assumption that you were upset about things that actually happened, but it turns out, that you were upset about the delusional fantasies that exist only in your imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1728 "2021-08-19T15:03:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > According to this poster conservatives have poor social skills, they don’t value relationships, they are dumb, they are poor - and that’s their own fault (that bit was in an earlier post). > [@Babale](#): > > Political belief system != inherent characteristics like race, gender, sexuality. It really isn’t that fucking hard. But then, you already know that. > [@DemonTree](#): > > No, I don’t ‘know that’. All are protected in the UK under the Equality Act 2010. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Hmm, now I don’t know what the law actually says but ya think this _religion_ might be giving us a clue as to what this _or belief_ means? > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It doesn’t say political belief. In that context, I’d take it as an attempt to include atheism and ‘spiritual but not religious’ beliefs. At least, unless somebody can bring court cases deciding otherwise. > [@Babale](#): > > Your argument that political beliefs are part of a protected class in the UK has been thoroughly debunked already, so I’ll move on: Setting aside the debate about the current crop of individual conservative posters, I would just like to note for the record that this sequence is a good example of the kind of bubble that’s being complained about. Two speculative responses “thoroughly debunked” a point that wasn’t even categorically incorrect, and it was time to move on. You would kinda _have_ to be a little bit sick in the head to want to play the other side of that game. Knowing that if you say ‘well, you know, that’s kind of a hot button issue in the Brexit age, and while not all political beliefs are protected, certainly _some_ are, so it’s really a question of at what point a political opinion rises to the level of deeply-heldness that it should be afforded that status, as Kimstu’s subsequent cite demonstrated, even though they seemed not to realize that, and there’s a good argument that one’s “conservativeness” is more akin to one’s “democratic socialistness” than to any mere political opinion,’ and so on, that it’s a coin flip whether you’ll get any substantive response, but a guarantee that you’ll get the snarky ones from people who don’t actually know… what’s the good faith incentive to take the time to argue that position, much less support it? Even if, hypothetically, you’re the kind of poster who is a total dipshit who never contributes anything, and really only seems to be here to antagonize people and then complain, you’re not wrong if you complain there’s a hive mind sort of mentality in these kinds of threads. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1729 "2021-08-19T15:04:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > See, I don’t see this as a misrepresentation as to what you said. I take this as giving you the benefit of the doubt. @steronz made the assumption that you were upset about things that actually happened, but it turns out, that you were upset about the delusional fantasies that exist only in your imagination. I see you are just here to troll, so I will not be replying further. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1730 "2021-08-19T15:09:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No one could conceivably think someone else was suggesting this, so why bring it up? Simply as an example of why your quest for truth is useless. What do you think needs to happen? > [@DemonTree](#): > > Yes, but whether or not a virus recently escaped from the lab is _important information_ when doing this. Why do you believe this to be so? Do you always believe in fighting the last battle? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I can’t believe anyone is actually arguing this point. Ah, is that an example of that vehement opposition and hatred you were talking about? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1731 "2021-08-19T15:10:18Z")
Ah, so you are _not_ able to disagree without being hateful. Now I see why you think this is the case for other posters, you can only see how you act yourself. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1732 "2021-08-19T15:40:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Simply as an example of why your quest for truth is useless. What do you think needs to happen? Because we still don’t know the outbreak origin of the virus and therefore may not be prepared to avoid future outbreaks of novel variants. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why do you believe this to be so? Do you always believe in fighting the last battle? What?? We aren’t even done fighting this battle. The enemy is changing faster than we can predict and is becoming more powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1733 "2021-08-19T16:04:58Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > If the pandemic started with a tourist, probably tours of the caves should be banned. If it started at a wild animal market, such markets need to be better regulated or even closed down. If it escaped from a lab, then safety procedures need to be reviewed or better enforced, possibly around the world as well as in China. If the pandemic didn’t start with a tourist, but such tours are a potential source of infection, shouldn’t they be regulated to a higher safety standard anyways, regardless of whether or not this particular pandemic started with a tourist? If the pandemic didn’t start with a meat market, but such meat markets are a potential source of infection, shouldn’t they be regulated to a higher safety standard anyways, regardless of whether or not this particular pandemic started with a meat market? If the pandemic didn’t start with a lab, but such labs are a potential source of infection, shouldn’t they be regulated to a higher safety standard anyways, regardless of whether or not this particular pandemic started with a lab? That’s Dr. Fauci’s point when he says “who cares?”. Regardless of how the pandemic started, what DRIVES IT is community spread. Community spread can be countered (NOT ELIMINATED but slowed down) by taking certain precautions like masking or social distancing, or by vaccinations. For people to act like figuring out the exact source of the pandemic is of critical importance while downplaying the actual steps we can take to counter the pandemic is transparently disingenuous. It isn’t something you do to fix the pandemic, it’s what you do to use the pandemic for political gain. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1734 "2021-08-19T16:10:36Z")
Wrong! I wouldn’t have linked to eternalism and it’s block universe concept if I did not know what determinism means. Are you familiar with the concept and acceptance of the block universe and what it means for perception of time? But let’s grant your point of view that contradicts relativity and say that the universe is intrinsically random. Intrinsically random still does not provide a mechanism to consciously override physical law. Bottom line is your brain is a physical organ. No amounts of wishing otherwise will change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1735 "2021-08-19T16:13:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wrong! > > I wouldn’t have linked to eternalism and it’s block universe concept if I did not know what determinism means. Are you familiar with the concept and acceptance of the block universe and what it means for perception of time? Oh well. Next time I will stay out of it. But if you really must have this tiresome unproductive argument, could you please take to a new thread? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1736 "2021-08-19T16:13:52Z")
They were also inspired by the progressive’s advocation of eugenics as means to nip social problems in the bud so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1737 "2021-08-19T16:14:14Z")
Nope. Plus it’s better than silly recipes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1738 "2021-08-19T16:14:15Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Community spread can be countered (NOT ELIMINATED but slowed down) Actually, community transmission can be eliminated by adequately rigorous observance of public-health protocols, as [New Zealand achieved between March and June 2020](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203). This month, New Zealand had another case of community transmission, so they’re on short-term lockdown again in order to eliminate it again. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1739 "2021-08-19T16:16:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Nope. Plus it’s better than silly recipes. I daresay you’ve seen this one before: > **[Deep-Fried Octopus from Spain - Pulpo Frito Recipe](https://visitsouthernspain.com/fried-octopus-recipe/)** > > Are you a seafood lover? Would you like to eat a delicious octopus recipe that follows an authentic Spanish recipe? You are in the right place, as we'll help you prepare the best deep-fried octopus ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1740 "2021-08-19T16:19:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Actually, community transmission can be eliminated by adequately rigorous observance of public-health protocols, as [New Zealand achieved between March and June 2020](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203). > > This month, New Zealand had another case of community transmission, so they’re on short-term lockdown again in order to eliminate it again Sure, eventually you can eliminate it, but with the number of people infected that’s definitely not an immediate goal. In the short term, the purpose of masking, social distancing, etc is not to eliminate the virus (and it’s important to make that very clear because otherwise idiots point to every case and shout “see, your fascist lockdowns aren’t working!” before spreading COVID around) but to reduce its R value to below 1. If you keep a virus at an R value below 1 long enough, then yes it will eventually be eradicated. But with something like COVID you have to either eliminate it world-wide or prevent travel, so realistically these measures alone won’t eliminate COVID any time soon. But they COULD get COVID down to a level where a concentrated effort can eliminate it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1741 "2021-08-19T16:20:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I wouldn’t have linked to eternalism and it’s block universe concept if I did not know what determinism means. Good, then you can answer my question from post #1609. What exactly did you mean in post #1600 by saying that “humans live in a deterministic universe”? Are you asserting that the physical universe is in fact 100% deterministic, in which all outcomes are at least theoretically entirely predictable? > [@octopus](#): > > Intrinsically random still does not provide a mechanism to consciously override physical law. > > Bottom line is your brain is a physical organ. Nobody here is in any way claiming that there exists any “mechanism to consciously override physical law”, or that the brain is anything but a physical organ. You seem to be desperately persisting in attacking that strawman because you can’t address the arguments actually being made. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1742 "2021-08-19T16:23:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Because we still don’t know the outbreak origin of the virus and therefore may not be prepared to avoid future outbreaks of novel variants. Who is “we”? There are experts with far more knowledge and tools at their disposal that are looking into this. Given that, it will probably be years, if ever, that they pin down exactly how this came about. The complaint in this thread is that the media is misinforming the public, which is both entirely untrue, and also is irrelevant to the job that the experts are doing. If someone misunderstands a headline, and doesn’t bother to read the actual article, much less follow up on the sources, what bearing does that have on what practices that labs should take going forward to prevent accidental release of infectious substances? @DemonTree made the claim that the media was lying about the possibility of a lab leak for political purposes. This is simply untrue. It also has no bearing on what is actually happening with those whose job it is to determine what may have happened and how to prevent it in the future. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > We aren’t even done fighting this battle. The enemy is changing faster than we can predict and is becoming more powerful. The enemy being the virus, I assume, and not those who have helped to spread it by downplaying the dangers and engaging in disingenuous rhetoric. But you are correct, it is changing and becoming more powerful, which is why concentrating so much on the last battle is futile, when we should be concentrating on the future. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1743 "2021-08-19T16:25:52Z")
Not necessarily predictable. Again, actually read about the block universe which is widely accepted among physicists. To predict would require measurement and calculation capability that may not be possible. And no, I am not attacking a person of straw. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1744 "2021-08-19T16:26:16Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > You would kinda _have_ to be a little bit sick in the head to want to play the other side of that game. Knowing that if you say [… SNIP long complicated thing …] that it’s a coin flip whether you’ll get any substantive response, but a guarantee that you’ll get the snarky ones from people who don’t actually know… what’s the good faith incentive to take the time to argue that position, much less support it? This is too, too true. Putting effort and evidence into a post takes time, and many times all you get is snark and unsupported opinion in return. It’s a losing battle. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1745 "2021-08-19T16:45:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not necessarily predictable. Yes, “100% deterministic” does imply, as I said, that all outcomes are at least theoretically entirely predictable. Are you in fact asserting that the physical universe is 100% deterministic? It’s not a difficult question, and if you do actually understand what “deterministic” means, you shouldn’t be having such trouble answering it. (And no, the “block universe” hypothesis, which is nowhere near as unified or uncontroversial as you’re trying to suggest, does not automatically imply that the universe is 100% deterministic.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=88)