# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1746 "2021-08-19T16:54:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > it’s a coin flip whether you’ll get any substantive response, but a guarantee that you’ll get the snarky ones from people who don’t actually know… what’s the good faith incentive to take the time to argue that position, much less support it? I changed my mind about the like button. This needs a like button. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1747 "2021-08-19T16:59:11Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Two speculative responses “thoroughly debunked” a point that wasn’t even categorically incorrect, and it was time to move on. I believe **Babale** meant debunked in court, there was a specific case in the news recently, not by posts in this topic. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1748 "2021-08-19T17:06:42Z")
Yes it does. and yes it is. I can’t do your understanding for you. Sorry. You just have the psychological need for reality to be otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1749 "2021-08-19T17:12:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes it does. and yes it is. Is that an answer to my (repeated) question about whether you are asserting that the universe is 100% deterministic? Or are you saying “yes” in response to some other part of my post that you failed to identify? > [@octopus](#): > > I can’t do your understanding for you. The problem is that you can’t do the understanding for yourself. You make sweeping vague assertions about stuff you don’t really understand, and then retreat into deliberately obscure short snippets of sentences and irrelevant accusations to avoid having to make actual coherent arguments in response to people questioning you. This is precisely the sort of bad-faith, anti-intellectual posting style that the OP was complaining about in conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1750 "2021-08-19T17:27:36Z")
I haven’t seen Octo display the philosophical or mathematical base needed to fully understand the topics he is discussing. Even here, he sounds, at best, like a well-read layman. Which is good! However, his insistence that this is ‘true’ is, again, another twisting of an unproven article of faith into ‘reality’ on the part of a conservative. What a shock! ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1751 "2021-08-19T17:30:40Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I believe **Babale** meant debunked in court, there was a specific case in the news recently, not by posts in this topic. What case? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1752 "2021-08-19T17:36:59Z")
Otoh, would like to congratulate Octo on not being an Objectivist. Now if only we could get @D_Anconia to discuss that with him, that could be truly special. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1753 "2021-08-19T18:01:06Z")
It’s at least as true as anything that is being proposed as a counter. And yet Kimstu definitely can’t provide the burden of proof that he/she is demanding. Which is why Kimstu’s argument is disingenuous. Holding the block universe theory, which is widely accepted in mainstream physics as real hell I might even provide cites!!!, to an impossible standard while hand waving the decision making of the brain as somehow a manifestation of intrinsic randomness while providing no proof is absurd. Sure, ridicule my education. That’s fine. But a large contingent of PhD physicists are advocates of block universe/eternalism. The objections occur not due to science or math or logic but due to the desire for humanity or more honestly the self to be somewhat special in the universe. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1754 "2021-08-19T18:18:00Z")
My hat’s off to Kimstu for humoring this pointless discussion about physics, but at the end of the day all you’re arguing is that there are only 2 observable genders and liberals have tried to “will” additional genders into existence. Of course, it’s demonstrably false that there are only 2 observable genders. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with X and Y chromosomes with an androgen insensitivity disorder who developed external female genitalia but no internal female reproductive system. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with an XXY chromosome setup. There are literally people born with penises and small vaginal openings where their scrotums would be. Your insistence that there are only 2 genders is at odds with basic, observable reality. So tell me again who’s trying to “will” a certain truth into existence? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1755 "2021-08-19T18:22:49Z")
I don’t even know what gender or sex mean anymore so there is that. I have been bewitched by Woke mumbo-jumbo. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1756 "2021-08-19T18:25:34Z")
Stunning concession. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1757 "2021-08-19T18:28:03Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Of course, it’s demonstrably false that there are only 2 observable genders. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with X and Y chromosomes with an androgen insensitivity disorder who developed external female genitalia but no internal female reproductive system. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with an XXY chromosome setup. There are literally people born with penises and small vaginal openings where their scrotums would be. > > Your insistence that there are only 2 genders is at odds with basic, observable reality. So tell me again who’s trying to “will” a certain truth into existence? That’s all well and good but at some point even they have to pick a bathroom. The choices are: Men’s or Women’s. Choose. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1758 "2021-08-19T18:31:18Z")
So we all agree that gender can be a choice and not a biological fact? Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1759 "2021-08-19T18:33:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s all well and good but at some point even they have to pick a bathroom or locker room. The choices are: Men’s or Women’s. Choose That’s not a law of nature, that’s how our particular society works. Pretending that “which bathroom do you go to” is a matter of “2nd grade biology” rather than a product of our society is laughable. Eta: to be clear, I’m not saying you did that, “2nd grade biology” was octopus’ phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1760 "2021-08-19T18:34:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s not a law of nature, that’s how our particular society works. Pretending that “which bathroom do you go to” is a matter of “2nd grade biology” rather than a product of our society is laughable. You know what’s even more laughable? How few people here have a fucking sense of humor. No. I take that back. It’s sad, actually. ETA: saw your edit, and I withdraw the accusation. Good on ya. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1761 "2021-08-19T18:39:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You know what’s even more laughable? > > How few people here have a fucking sense of humor. What was the joke supposed to be? To me it just looked like you being an asshole, but maybe I’m missing some subtle complexity. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1762 "2021-08-19T18:50:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What was the joke supposed to be? To me it just looked like you being an asshole, but maybe I’m missing some subtle complexity. FFS. It’s a commentary on the human condition and how absurd some situations can be in the society in which we live. Sometimes you just have to have a laugh about it. And you made me explain a joke. Who’s the asshole now? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1763 "2021-08-19T18:54:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s a commentary on the human condition and how absurd some situations can be in the society in which we live. Sometimes you just have to have a laugh about it. To be fair, I think Poe’s Law comes into play here. There are quite a few people who honestly do think that trans people, or people with unusual situations, should just shut up and shuffle into the “correct” bathroom without protest. From your post, it isn’t really possible to tell that you are joking and don’t honestly believe that way. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1764 "2021-08-19T18:58:01Z")
I was thinking of _Maya Forstater v Centre for Global Development_ (“not worthy of respect in a democratic society”), but looking it up now the decision was even more recently overturned, on appeal. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1765 "2021-08-19T18:59:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > To be fair, I think Poe’s Law comes into play here. There are quite a few people who honestly do think that trans people, or people with unusual situations, should just shut up and shuffle into the “correct” bathroom without protest. From your post, it isn’t really possible to tell that you are joking and don’t honestly believe that way. I left the choice up to them. I didn’t choose FOR them. I thought that would have been a clear indicator. Fuck me… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=89)