# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1766 "2021-08-19T19:00:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s a commentary on the human condition and how absurd some situations can be in the society in which we live. Sometimes you just have to have a laugh about it. Sorry, how is that a joke, though? What’s the funny bit? Like, what’s the subverted expectation, or the unlikely juxtaposition? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1767 "2021-08-19T19:01:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I left the choice up to them. I didn’t choose FOR them. I thought that would have been a clear indicator. I didn’t accuse you of being one of those people, and I edited my post to make that clear. > [@](#): > > Fuck me… No thanks, I’m happily married ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1768 "2021-08-19T19:01:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sorry, how is that a joke, though? What’s the funny bit? Like, what’s the subverted expectation, or the unlikely juxtaposition? Yeah, not doing this. The joke isn’t for you. I get it. Let’s just move on. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1769 "2021-08-19T19:05:46Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I was thinking of _Maya Forstater v Centre for Global Development_ (“not worthy of respect in a democratic society”), but looking it up now the decision was even more recently overturned, on appeal. That’s the only one I’d heard of, but it doesn’t support @Babale’s position at all. Also, I doubt he’s ever heard of it. The dude just doesn’t understand what ‘debunked’ means. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1770 "2021-08-19T19:10:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yeah, not doing this. The joke isn’t for you. I get it. Let’s just move on. No, it’s not “for” me, but it’s apparently a joke _about_ people I care pretty deeply about. So, I thought I’d give you an opportunity to explain how it was a failed attempt at humor, and not just you being an utter shithead. Apparently, “shithead” it is. ---
**Author:** ![GeneralTang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@GeneralTang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GeneralTang)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1771 "2021-08-19T19:12:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > They were also inspired by the progressive’s advocation of eugenics as means to nip social problems in the bud so to speak. This makes so much sense! It hadn’t occurred to me that something that all modern progressives agree is terrible is equivalent to modern Republicans doing everything they can to bring about a Nazi state right now! You are fundamentally bankrupt. You think that after being accused of facism that the correct response is to argue the other side is just as bad? Is there any way to convince your shit-for-brains that fasism is a bad thing? Or do you bring your face to your food? I have a PhD in physics, and you know jack shit about how physics works. Yes, the idea of a block universe is attractive, but there is not one physicist worth their salt that claims they know for certain that this hypothesis is true. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1772 "2021-08-19T19:13:51Z")
> [@GeneralTang](#): > > Or do you bring your face to your food? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1773 "2021-08-19T19:27:18Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Of course, it’s demonstrably false that there are only 2 observable genders. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with X and Y chromosomes with an androgen insensitivity disorder who developed external female genitalia but no internal female reproductive system. I can observe with my own two eyes someone with an XXY chromosome setup. There are literally people born with penises and small vaginal openings where their scrotums would be. People with those conditions are not actually different sexes, and that isn’t what gender means anyway. The only people who aren’t definably male or female are true hermaphrodites (sorry, that’s probably not PC, but I don’t know any other term), who are both. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1774 "2021-08-19T19:47:17Z")
Fascism like the modern left and their assault on fundamental liberties? Yeah it’s wrong. And I doubt you have a PhD in physics if you are ignorant of the fact that a majority of them believe the block universe is accurate. I know you don’t have the intellect to refute it which is why your whole post comes across as an unhinged rant. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1775 "2021-08-19T20:16:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Fascism like the modern left and their assault on fundamental liberties? Yeah it’s wrong. And I doubt you have a PhD in physics if you are ignorant of the fact that a majority of them believe the block universe is accurate. I know you don’t have the intellect to refute it which is why your whole post comes across as an unhinged rant. Vanish thine self, dissembling mountebank, and remove with you the stench of mendacious obloquy! You are a synecdoche of the very phenomenon the o.p. declaims, you skulking plague of corruption and irrectitude. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1776 "2021-08-19T20:30:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > People with those conditions are not actually different sexes Well, that depends on how we choose to define “sex”. If we employ a rigid binary classification for biological sex, in which “male” means that you have a penis AND testes AND XY chromosomes while “female” means that you have a vagina AND uterus AND XX chromosomes, then we’re gonna need one or more additional sex categories to classify people who don’t fully meet those criteria. > [@DemonTree](#): > > and that isn’t what gender means anyway. Fair point. We can define the social construct of gender however we like, and gender categories can have varying degrees of correlation to biological sex. > [@DemonTree](#): > > The only people who aren’t definably male or female are true hermaphrodites ? I can see how we could set up a non-rigid sex binary system in which we could loosen up the above criteria in order to be able to put almost any intersex individual into either the M or the F box. But ISTM that the tweaking of the criteria would automatically be somewhat arbitrary. And in fact we could have a variety of slightly different non-rigid sex binary systems, none of which would be necessarily more scientifically valid or objective than the others. In your model of a sex binary system that can successfully classify everybody except “true hermaphrodites” as “definably male or female”, how would you assign the intersex people instanced by steronz? Namely, an XY person with androgen insensitivity and external female genitalia but no internal female reproductive system, or a person with XXY chromosomes, or a person with a penis but a vaginal opening instead of a scrotum? Which of those individuals are “definably male” and which are “definably female” in your system? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1777 "2021-08-19T20:31:59Z")
As a third party observer, I am really having a hard time figuring out why you are so offended by this, given that QuickSilver seemed to be making a point that I think you would agree with, and if the “joke” was pointed at anyone it was pointed at bigoted conservatives and one eight armed individual in particular. He even edited to say that Octopus was the target of his comment. To break it down. Quicksilver was asserting that the notion that which bathroom a person should go into being purely a matter of a 2nd grade biology notion of male, is false. Instead the designation of which bathroom a person goes into is directed more by conventions instituted by society. When Quicksilver said that such a notion was “laughable”, he was saying that the notion was absurdly stupid, not that it was a particularly funny situation for those who are the target of discrimination. I can understand that you are sensitive about this topic, but you are really manufacturing offense where none was intended or even exists. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1778 "2021-08-19T20:32:02Z")
English? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1779 "2021-08-19T20:33:49Z")
How would you define a dandelion such that all dandelions and only dandelions met the definition? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1780 "2021-08-19T20:41:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In your model of a sex binary system that can successfully classify everybody except “true hermaphrodites” as “definably male or female”, how would you assign the intersex people instanced by steronz? Namely, an XY person with androgen insensitivity and external female genitalia but no internal female reproductive system, or a person with XXY chromosomes, or a person with a penis but a vaginal opening instead of a scrotum? Which of those individuals are “definably male” and which are “definably female” in your system? It’s the “No True Hermaphrodite” fallacy. The fact is, the word “definably” is doing a heck of a lot of heavy lifting here. Yes, we can choose to define all phenotypes expressed in the population as “male” or “female” aside from a tiny handful called “true hermaphrodites”, or we could give precise clinical terms to each of hundreds or dozens of variations and define each of them as a distinct “sex” with some kind of byzantine classification system, or we could call sex a spectrum. In none of those cases are we changing reality, any more than astronomers who decide that Pluto is no longer a planet have. Regardless of how you choose to define it, a wide range of phenotypes exists - and that’s just talking about the physical anatomy of the reproductive system without even considering the brain or psychological mind. What’s under discussion here is not the existence of a wide range of phenotypes, but how society should treat those who aren’t neatly one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1781 "2021-08-19T20:44:09Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > He even edited to say that Octopus was the target of his comment. > > To break it down. Quicksilver was asserting that the notion that which bathroom a person should go into being purely a matter of a 2nd grade biology notion of male, is false. Instead the designation of which bathroom a person goes into is directed more by conventions instituted by society. > > When Quicksilver said that such a notion was “laughable”, he was saying that the notion was absurdly stupid, not that it was a particularly funny situation for those who are the target of discrimination. I think you are mixing up my post, and QuickSilver’s post which it was in response to. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s all well and good but at some point even they have to pick a bathroom. The choices are: Men’s or Women’s. Choose. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s not a law of nature, that’s how our particular society works. Pretending that “which bathroom do you go to” is a matter of “2nd grade biology” rather than a product of our society is laughable. > > Eta: to be clear, I’m not saying you did that, “2nd grade biology” was octopus’ phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1782 "2021-08-19T20:44:42Z")
The answer to that is that everyone should be treated fairly. Regardless of biology. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1783 "2021-08-19T20:46:53Z")
Ooops! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1784 "2021-08-19T20:59:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How would you define a dandelion such that all dandelions and only dandelions met the definition? I wouldn’t bother trying, because apparently even professional botanists can’t totally agree on exactly how to define a dandelion. Different botanical authorities recognize different numbers and categories of subspecies and microspecies of dandelions, [“and the taxonomy and nomenclatural situation of _Taraxacum officinale_ is not yet fully resolved”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taraxacum_officinale#Taxonomy). In fact, octopus, your question beautifully illustrates the exact sort of biological ambiguity and arbitrariness I’m talking about, which reinforces my point. It’s really not much use pretending that the oversimplified rigid classification schemes of “second-grade biology” somehow represent true reality, when what actual real-world biology is ultimately about is continuously variable distributions rather than rigidly discrete categories. There’s no 100% unambiguous and rigorous way to define a dandelion, and there’s no 100% unambiguous and rigorous way to define what constitutes “male” or “female” in the human species either. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1785 "2021-08-19T21:01:51Z")
Sure, but have you considered the fact that these so-called “botanists” are actually COLLEGE EDUCATED LIBTARDS who can’t understand SIMPLE 2ND GRADE BIOLOGY, meaning they’re the REAL science deniers in the dandelion taxonomy? Checkmate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=90)