# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1906 "2021-08-21T20:22:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And I’m not sure what the purpose was of the quote from my post in the DrDeth pitting. As I made explicitly clear in the post, it was not snark and was meant sincerely; I really do feel sorry for him (we knew at the time that a suspension was pending) and he genuinely does have some kind of psychological quirk that makes it difficult for him to maintain civil and rational discussion. I didn’t (and don’t) want him to be banned and hope that he can improve. I don’t know anything about you so I’m not going to accuse you of being especially eager to join a pile-one, but seriously, how would you feel if other people were speculating about you in that manner? It seems odd and hypocritical to ban bringing up people’s declared mental illnesses in the Pit, but to allow that kind of speculation on someone’s mental state. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1907 "2021-08-21T20:44:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > … how would you feel if other people were speculating about you in that manner? > > It seems odd and hypocritical to ban bringing up people’s declared mental illnesses in the Pit, but to allow that kind of speculation on someone’s mental state. I’m not “speculating”, and there’s no “hypocrisy” in board policy, IMHO. He has a clear pattern of disruptive behaviour and an obsessive style of argumentation that often isn’t even remotely rational. It would be inappropriate for even a qualified psychologist to make any kind of diagnosis based on his message board _persona_, and I’m not at all qualified anyway, so that’s not what I’m doing. The phrase “some kind of cognitive dysfunction” is very generic and has no special medical meaning beyond what might be alternatively described in a more common vernacular as “he’s a bit weird because he’s so obsessive”. The thing that is taken seriously around here – and with which I fully concur – is taking someone’s self-acknowledged mental health diagnosis and using it to mock them. Which is not at all what I’m doing. Can you see the difference? Suppose I said that if you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot. Note that “idiot” was once a medical term used to denote someone of low intelligence. Do you think that using this term should be a warnable offense in the Pit, where insults routinely fly thick and fast? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1908 "2021-08-21T20:47:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > {…} Suppose I said that if you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot. Note that “idiot” was once a medical term used to denote someone of low intelligence. Do you think that using this term should be a warnable offense in the Pit, where insults routinely fly thick and fast? Is this when DemonTree should tell she’s a diagnosed idiot? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1909 "2021-08-21T21:03:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The thing that is taken seriously around here – and with which I fully concur – is taking someone’s self-acknowledged mental health diagnosis and using it to mock them. Which is not at all what I’m doing. Can you see the difference? You don’t know what anyone here has been diagnosed with, and given the existence of TBBQP and the sort of people who post there, I can well understand why someone would be reluctant to talk about it. I agree you weren’t mocking him, but you 100% were speculating, and you didn’t answer the question of how you would feel about it. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Suppose I said that if you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot. Note that “idiot” was once a medical term used to denote someone of low intelligence. Do you think that using this term should be a warnable offense in the Pit, where insults routinely fly thick and fast? You should ask @thorny_locust. I think if you’re going to care about insulting groups of people, it should be _every_ group and not just the ones you sympathise with and care about. Or you can stop caring and insult everyone equally. Just don’t pretend to have a principle and then ignore it whenever is convenient. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1910 "2021-08-22T00:27:18Z")
Annoying the long necked mean girls is the TLDR version. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1911 "2021-08-22T15:53:58Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I think if you’re going to care about insulting groups of people, it should be _every_ group and not just the ones you sympathise with and care about. Because if I think it’s wrong to insult Jews as a group, I should also think it’s wrong to insult Nazis as a group? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1912 "2021-08-22T16:33:28Z")
Of course! Its only those trans folks that don’t deserve to not be insulted . . . amIright DemonTree? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1913 "2021-08-23T03:39:54Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > New Zealand is also an island (well, three and some change islands) nation with a small population on the far side of the world where it’s easy to restrict access in and out as the only ways to get there are via aircraft or boat. > > Australia is a patchwork of outcomes […] Australia, of course, is geographically just as much an island as New Zealand is, just as inaccessible except by boat or plane, and just as much “on the far side of the world” from the Euroamerican-centric viewpoint. Its population is about five times greater than New Zealand’s, but still less than one-tenth of the USA’s. Point being that what seems to be the chief factor in difference of outcomes is not geography or demographics so much as policy. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1914 "2021-08-23T03:43:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The larger point is that identifying as a certain gender does not in itself change either the physical or social realities of sex. Nobody’s claiming it does, which is why octopus’s ill-informed attempt at a physics analogy about “perception” vs. “reality” is a strawman argument. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1915 "2021-08-23T04:52:10Z")
No it’s not. You just lack the ability to understand the argument. There are plenty of resources online where you can educate yourself on the fact that humans are subject to physical law. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1916 "2021-08-23T05:05:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > humans are subject to physical law Nobody here is disagreeing that humans are subject to physical law. Accepting the validity of transgender identification is in no way denying physical reality or the fact that humans are subject to physical law. Nobody believes that, say, identifying as a woman when you’re anatomically male automatically makes your anatomy different, or automatically makes other people instinctively perceive you as a woman. Transphobes like to pretend that advocates of transgender rights are making such obviously counterfactual claims, because that gives them a convenient strawman argument that they can then “refute” (e.g., with ill-informed attempts at physics analogies such as yours). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1917 "2021-08-23T10:48:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I now eagerly await your explanation of how it’s the left’s fault that you’re a morally bankrupt hypocrite. Be sure to use the word “woke” again, because it **totally** makes you sound more credible. > [@octopus](#): > > Woke! > > Historically and currently the far left ideology of communism is responsible for the most misery that humanity has suffered. Yet you and fellow hivesters cling to the fear of the spectre of a defeated 1920s-1940s era ideology to use as tool to justify the violence and illiberalism of the modern left. Sad! Well, I _did_ ask, I suppose. And you did not disappoint. > [@octopus](#): > > Listen yourself… you left wing fools have used terms such as Nazi, fascist, bigot, etc directed at anyone to the right of Stalin for so damn long it’s time you get a taste of what it is like. The difference when I use it is that the modern progressive left is actually authoritarian and illiberal and dangerous to fundamental freedoms that are commonly accepted in the Western democracies. Yes, we are well aware that you use it in a way that is diametrically opposed to reality in order to deflect from the quite close and accurate parallels with the current Republican Party. To repeat from above: > [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s interesting that throughout the last several years you have continued to claim that the side filled with rampant authoritarianism who have: > > - held populist rallies encouraging their followers to hate (and sometimes actually assault) anyone with dissenting views, > - attacked the media as “enemies of the people” and heavily promoted their own openly propagandistic organs including use of foreign agents to spread disinformation, > - undermined - and continue to undermine - democracy at all levels in America and are putting in place mechanisms to allow them to simply declare themselves the winners of elections, > - repeatedly promoted and circulated white nationalist rhetoric, > - been led by politicians right up to the President himself who have encouraged armed groups - including government employees in unmarked uniforms and known violent right-wing vigilante groups - to cause trouble in order to justify crackdowns on the left, > - conducted and continue to conduct a long-running smear campaign - and active pogrom when they have the power to enact it - against an ethnic minority (including depicting them as disease-carrying “vermin” coming over the border to undermine the country) > - tick every single one of Eco’s 14 common features of fascism, and > - produced and encouraged many, many followers who have, on repeated occasion, displayed and promoted Nazi symbolism including marching through the streets with flags with swastikas on them - > > …are somehow **not** fascist. > > But the left are “fascist” because they promote equality and democracy, and hold anti-democratic bigots to account for their words and actions. Which is somehow more oppressive than actual fascism. > > Mind you, projecting the crimes and sins of the right onto the left was also a key element of fascism. This week alone, in addition to the ongoing right-wing attempts to obstruct and obfuscate the investigation into the last violent right-wing insurrection (you remember - the one actively encouraged and supported by multiple high-level Republicans) and to [incite the next one](https://www.salon.com/2021/06/30/tucker-carlson-prepares-white-nationalists-for-war-dont-ignore-the-power-of-his-rhetoric/), we’ve had Mo Brooks’ little statement above excusing an actual pipe bomber and we’ve had [Rick DeSantis’ press secretary caught harassing an AP reporter](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/452054-twitter-suspends-account-of-ron-desantis-press-secretary-after-harassing-ap-reporter/). Also, Republicans are still trying to change the rules so they can throw out the results of any elections they don’t like, and white right-wingers remain the greatest domestic security threat to this country. Note that whereas your argument against the left is, basically, this: [https://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/trump-whiteboard-oklahoma.jpg](https://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/trump-whiteboard-oklahoma.jpg) …I simply have to reference what the American right-wing are doing RIGHT NOW, right out in the open. Which, given your long history of repeated deflections, we can only assume you’re fine with - as long as you can blame someone else for it. ---
**Author:** ![JakeRS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@JakeRS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JakeRS)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1918 "2021-08-25T18:21:52Z")
What a disgusting topic. Imagine if the title was “this message board does NOT need liberals”, the chaos that would insue, but since it’s trendy to hate on conservatives (on an exagarated stereotype of conservatives to be more exact), this disgusting fascism and bigotry is allowed. Most of the so called “liberals” have nothing against their current president being allies with Saudi Arabia, even though it treats its people a million times worse than any “conservative” they talk about 24/7, Hipocrisy at it’s best. edit: just to clarify, I am not an American and in other countries we have the right to chose what we support and what we don’t support, we aren’t bullied into supporting sacred and holy topics be it liberalism and “progressive” politics or be it Pyongyang’s politics. This thread is a perfect example that that is not the case in America. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1919 "2021-08-25T18:28:49Z")
I’d just like to know: What are you wearing, **Jake** from **RS**? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1920 "2021-08-25T18:30:01Z")
Maybe if you guys weren’t such shitty people. > [@JakeRS](#): > > Most of the so called “liberals” have nothing against their current president being allies with Saudi Arabia Most of us can criticize Biden when we don’t agree with him unlike you people with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1921 "2021-08-25T18:31:16Z")
Really, it’s not conservatives that we don’t need. It’s people who make disingenuous arguments, like the one that you just presented, that add nothing to the board, and in fact, detract from it substantially. That it has become a standard conservative tactic to make disingenuous arguments like you have is only the fault of conservatives, not of progressives. Nothing that you said was true, just passive aggressively accusatory. What do you really think you can accomplish with such a piece of shit post that is a positive contribution to the board? Let _me_ be clear here. Posts like the one you just shit out here is _not_ something that this board needs. If that is all you can contribute, then you are not needed either. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1922 "2021-08-25T18:37:11Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > Most of the so called “liberals” have nothing against their current president being allies with Saudi Arabia, even though it treats its people a million times worse than any “conservative” they talk about 24/7, Hipocrisy at it’s best. I suspect most of us do indeed have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1923 "2021-08-25T18:41:04Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > What a disgusting topic. Imagine if the title was “this message board does NOT need liberals”, the chaos that would insue, but since it’s trendy to hate on conservatives (on an exagarated stereotype of conservatives to be more exact), this disgusting fascism and bigotry is allowed. Speaking on behalf of the board moderation, a thread titled “This board doesn’t need liberals,” would be 100% allowed as a topic. > [@JakeRS](#): > > Most of the so called “liberals” have nothing against their current president being allies with Saudi Arabia, even though it treats its people a million times worse than any “conservative” they talk about 24/7, Hipocrisy at it’s best. Saudi Arabia isn’t “Joe Biden’s” ally, they’re America’s ally, just like they were during the Trump administration and both Bush administrations. Lots and lots of liberals aren’t happy about that situation, but trying to spin “friendly with Saudi Arabia,” as a partisan issue demonstrates a pretty shallow knowledge of American politics. > [@JakeRS](#): > > This thread is a perfect example that that is not the case in America. It’s also probably a mistake to generalize from a small, special interest message board with a couple thousand members, tops, to a nation with a population of over 300 million. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1924 "2021-08-25T19:22:35Z")
> Conservatives are not honest. Therefore, they should be banned from this website. Leave the discussion to the rational adults who live in a fact-based world. Ban them all. We’ll have less controversy, but more quality discourse. I’m all in favor of banning people who are irrational and deny well-established facts, at least from the politics and GD forums. I think it would be better to argue in favor of that than of banning “conservatives”, although I certainly don’t deny that the Venn diagram between those categories shows significant overlap. Assholes like octuputz and D’Anconia add nothing to this board and it would IMO be a much more pleasant place without them. But there are other posters like DemonTree and Martin Hyde who can make points and rationally defend their conservative positions (granted, the positions they are defending are typically still pretty far left of the mainstream Republican positions, which can’t really be rationally defended). People say you should just ignore the trolls, but the fact that this thread has gone to almost 2000 posts shows that lots of people aren’t willing or able to do that. I think what we really need is a Box forum like they have at Giraffe Boards. That way, we wouldn’t need to ban them, just restrict their posting privileges to one specific forum. Then, those who enjoy having their discussions interrupted by octopus bursting in to fling poop at the walls could still do so, and those of us who prefer more adult conversations could stick to the other fora. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1925 "2021-08-25T20:23:25Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > the Venn diagram between those categories shows significant overlap I think that was mainly the point of the OP, made in perhaps a bit of an overly hyperbolic form. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I think what we really need is a Box forum like they have at Giraffe Boards. It’s been mentioned before but never really got much traction. I don’t really see the point of a special sandbox where useless posters can play. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=97)