# Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474 "2021-07-28T02:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 99
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1967 "2021-08-26T01:13:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > My point about Cuba and North Korea wasn’t to compare human rights, but rather to show that isolation isn’t always an effective strategy for bringing about change. No doubt, and I don’t think you’re wrong. That said, I think Saudi Arabia is capable of withstanding mere “influence,” given that they’re sitting on a giant lake of easily and cheaply extractable oil. Looking at Saudi Arabia, and its monarchy (I mean, the presumptive heir, Mohammed bin Salman, has dissidents murdered and dismembered and packed into suitcases in an extraterritorial embassy), shouldn’t there be a point where we say “no more”? I think we hit that point quite a while ago. Yes, it will cost us. So what? Is that the deciding factor? I mean, yes, of course it is, but _should_ it be the deciding factor? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1968 "2021-08-26T01:15:03Z")
I think one fear we have is that ME oil becomes traded in something other than US dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1969 "2021-08-26T01:17:26Z")
Absolutely, and concerns about reserve currency and all that are beyond my understanding. That said, the idea that Saudi Arabia, which is a barbaric absolute monarchy, should be treated as an equal, rather than a pariah, by any nation that fancies itself a democracy, strikes me as ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1970 "2021-08-26T01:26:45Z")
The US does business with thugs all the time. We’ve installed and supported thugs. Shit, we were doing business with the Taliban in the weeks before 9/11. As for the reserve currency thing, let’s not forget that the federal reserve and the treasury have released massive amounts of currency and debt into the markets. Banks actually have more cash than they know what to do with at the moment, but they will have to start putting the money somewhere soon. We could have an inflation problem soon if we don’t already have one, and that inevitably leads to interest rate hikes. Raising interest rates with large sums of debts could be painful. We’re potentially in a debt trap. Mess with Saudi Arabia, and they could decide that dollars aren’t necessarily an investment class that suits them well - maybe yuan would be better. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1971 "2021-08-26T01:27:55Z")
Sounds like you think Henry Kissinger was a great statesman. Can’t say I’m on board with that. As I said above, maybe it’s time to put _Realpolitik_ behind us. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1972 "2021-08-26T01:28:25Z")
And do what, commit fiscal suicide?\ Look, what kind of fucked up society tolerates school shootings and annual mass shootings? Oh that’s right - we do. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1973 "2021-08-26T01:29:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Look, what kind of fucked up society tolerates school shootings and annual mass shootings? Oh that’s right - we do. Oh, well, got me there. That proves everything I’ve said about Saudi Arabia is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1974 "2021-08-26T06:59:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, and? The fact sanctions would harm the poorest is irrelevant to US decision making. They could do something today that wouldn’t hurt poor Saudis at all: stop selling their government weapons. Stopping the Saudi government funding mosques to promote their own brand of extremism would also be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1975 "2021-08-26T07:11:04Z")
You appear to be under the impression that we’re arguing. You’re not saying anything I don’t entirely agree with. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1976 "2021-08-26T07:33:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Venezuela is a failed state (amazingly, given the vast wealth they’re sitting on – you’d think it could at least be a corrupt state like Nigeria) The USA doesn’t fund regime change in Nigeria the way it did in [Venezuela](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#2017%E2%80%93present:_Venezuela), might be why. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Good god, if they didn’t have oil, they’d be barbaric tribesmen who we wouldn’t even talk to. Depends - do they still control Mecca, in this scenario? That’s not nothing. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1977 "2021-08-26T08:52:29Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And do what, commit fiscal suicide? How much are your principles worth to you? I don’t know if it would really be ‘fiscal suicide’ to dump Saudi Arabia now, but if so, that’s something the US government could be working to change. Could have been working on for a long time now, and haven’t, and still aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1978 "2021-08-26T09:03:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The USA doesn’t fund regime change in Nigeria the way it did in [Venezuela](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#2017%E2%80%93present:_Venezuela), might be why. It sure didn’t help, but Chávez and Maduro made plenty of mistakes of their own. Treating the oil industry as a golden egg and failing to invest any money back into it; firing or driving away competent workers and installing their cronies. Allowing the economy to become almost entirely dependent on a single commodity and failing to save anything for a rainy day. What’s impressive is that the US-backed opposition is even _more_ incompetent than the current socialist government. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1979 "2021-08-26T13:35:08Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Saudi Arabia has oil, and it’s an ally in the Middle East generally and against Iran in particular, and it spends lots of money on US weapons. And there - 1, 2, 3 - is why nothing will change. We want their oil, their support against Iran, and their money buying our weapons. And while we might be able to diminish the strength of the first two, the third will always be the biggest driver. The MIC rules all. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1980 "2021-08-26T13:42:14Z")
Let’s see…. Trumps first big overseas trip was to Saudi Arabia, remember the photo op where Trump was staring into a mystical looking glowing orb as the Saudis looked on — he saw a huge opportunity for arms sales. [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/TyG6Z7m.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/mkx1nGh) One of his best friends, a member of the inaugural committee, was recently indicted for illegally acting as an agent of the Saudi government, he was actively intervening with the Trump White House on behalf of the Saudis. > **[Trump ally Tom Barrack’s criminal case isn’t really about lobbying – it’s...](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/tom-barrack-lobbying-case-is-national-security-case.html)** > > The federal statute under which Tom Barrack was charged is used to prosecute spies, not lobbyists. Then there was that one time that Saudi gaslighted Trump into supporting their aggression against Qatar > **[Saudi Arabia's standoff with Qatar continues – and Donald Trump has made it...](https://theconversation.com/saudi-arabias-standoff-with-qatar-continues-and-donald-trump-has-made-it-worse-96953)** > > Without strategic clarity from the US, the Saudis and their allies are under little pressure to thaw their frozen relationship with Qatar. Or how about the time that David Pecker’s National Enquirer, a magazine that for a while existed mostly to assist Trump in his extortion and blackmail schemes, published a special issue all about the wonderful and civilized investment opportunities available in Saudi Arabia. [Inside AMI Magazine 'the New Kingdom' That Reads Like Saudi Propaganda](https://www.insider.com/inside-the-american-media-magazine-that-reads-like-saudi-propaganda-2020-2)]([Inside AMI Magazine 'the New Kingdom' That Reads Like Saudi Propaganda](https://www.insider.com/inside-the-american-media-magazine-that-reads-like-saudi-propaganda-2020-2) Then there was the involvement of Jared and MBS in the Bezos phone hack. > **[Revealed: the Saudi heir and the alleged plot to undermine Jeff Bezos](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/revealed-the-saudi-heir-and-the-alleged-plot-to-undermine-jeff-bezos)** > > Apparent targeting of Amazon billionaire’s phone fits into broader pattern of behaviour by Saudi Arabia And let’s not forget, because it’s related, is that the reason the Trump White House, the freaking executive branch of the US government, was running this extortion campaign against the owner of the Washington Post because he wouldn’t shut up about the cold-blooded execution of one of their journalists- by the Saudi government. A murder that the Trump administration covered up. > **[U.S. Intelligence: Saudi Crown Prince Approved Operation To Kill Jamal Khashoggi](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/25/971215788/biden-administration-poised-to-release-report-on-killing-of-jamal-khashoggi)** > > Khashoggi was killed during a visit to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul in 2018. The report is expected to damage the already complicated relations between the traditional allies. Now you motherfuckers are whining because the _Democrats_ aren’t being mean enough to the Saudis? Some trumped-up moron that’s trying to troll the board posts possibly the most ridiculous criticism of Democratic policy that I’ve ever heard, and you guys start frantically running your fingers through the turd he dropped looking for something that’s not shit because you feel you have to be bipartisan or something? Fuck that noise and fuck being nice to conservatives. This is the kind of both-sideism that pisses me off. Is Joe Biden’s Saudi policy perfect? No. Should we be doing more to prevent human rights abuse there? Yes. But this is absolutely insignificant compared to the four years of abject corruption that characterized the Republican relationship with Saudi Arabia under Trump. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1981 "2021-08-26T13:48:43Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The fact sanctions would harm the poorest is irrelevant to US decision making. They could do something today that wouldn’t hurt poor Saudis at all: stop selling their government weapons. It’s not that simple. If the US doesn’t sell them weapons, China and Russia will. Sunni Arabia is also a strategic ally against Shia Arabia, specifically the [China-Iran strategic and economic alliance](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/09/irans-pact-with-china-is-bad-news-for-the-west/). America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia and various other unsavory alliances is largely about the escalating proxy (cold) war with China. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1982 "2021-08-26T13:50:30Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Then there was that one time that Saudi gaslighted Trump into supporting their aggression against Qatar I thought he was just doing that to get back at the Qataris for [not bailing out Jared and his white elephant on Fifth Avenue](https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/timeline-on-jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-avenue-and-white-house-policy/). ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1983 "2021-08-26T13:56:18Z")
Wow, I missed that one. So much freaking corruption. I have to run. I’m going to interview a couple of investment advisors. This Buffet guy seems pretty sharp, but that Madoff dude is a little more bullish on foreign bonds, so he might be the better choice. Both sides! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1984 "2021-08-26T13:59:46Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > This Buffet guy seems pretty sharp, but that Madoff dude is a little more bullish on foreign bonds, so he might be the better choice. Both sides! Indeed. Both sides are hypocritical and corrupt when it comes to Saudi Arabia, but they’re not _equally_ hypocritical and corrupt by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1985 "2021-08-26T14:10:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s not that simple. If the US doesn’t sell them weapons, China and Russia will. Sunni Arabia is also a strategic ally against Shia Arabia, specifically the [China-Iran strategic and economic alliance](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/08/09/irans-pact-with-china-is-bad-news-for-the-west/). Doesn’t seem terribly likely that China would sell them weapons if China is really allied with Iran. Why does the US have to continue being enemies with Iran anyway? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474/1986 "2021-08-26T14:14:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Indeed. Both sides are hypocritical and corrupt when it comes to Saudi Arabia, but they’re not _equally_ hypocritical and corrupt by a long shot. Is allying with corrupt dictatorships actually contrary to the Republicans’ principles? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=98) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-be-real-clear-this-message-board-does-not-need-conservatives/947474.md?page=100)