Singalong time?!
So-called “scientific determinism”, or nomological determinism, is indeed an existing philosophical viewpoint, but it doesn’t contradict my remark that physicists consider it highly unlikely that the physical universe is 100% deterministic.
Even if there are some physicists who fully endorse an extreme form of nomological determinism (I don’t happen to know of any) holding that the physical universe is entirely deterministic, that would still not affect the question of whether transgender identity is real.
Which is exactly what I said in post #1616. Personal beliefs, or moral systems, may be consistent with objective reality, but they don’t necessarily have objective truth values. And your position that transgender identity isn’t real is part of a subjective moral system, not of objective scientific fact.
So, as I said, when you try to claim (or insinuate) that your criticism of transgender-rights advocacy is based on science, you are objectively scientifically wrong.
Then kindly explain. Who are these people? Who are the totally “on the left” people who are not to be parodied as “woke SJW” people?
Because you say you’re “not a conservative,” and yet you seem to have bought into a lot of conservative memes, to the point where I must conclude you are either LYING, VERY CONFUSED about where you fit on the political spectrum, or maybe just an idiot who doesn’t realize the memes he’s bought into aren’t an accurate representation of any actual political faction in the US.
This from the guy who laments how “woke SJWs” are too emotional. You don’t hate bigots, or even think they’re “horrible” people. But those “woke SJWs” you keep seeing in memes from the alt-right? Yeah, fuck those guys, right?
Christ, you are deluded.
From Julian Carr’s speech at the dedication of the “Silent Sam” pro-confederacy statue at UNC-Chapel Hill in 1913:
Taking the statues down is precisely because we want to condemn political violence. Our nation has no greater monument to political violence, no greater encouragement of political violence, than the distributed works of the Daughters of the Confederacy.
Here’s a thought for you, @ASL_v2.0 - people have political views that don’t fit into neat boxes.
Also, let me type this very slowly for you since you’re apparently having trouble reading:
I. AM. NOT. AMERICAN.
I am not talking about American political factions when I refer to woke SJW types. We have politics and SJWS in other countries.
They’re not criticised for them here though (or not nearly to the same extent) - they’re generally lauded for having the “correct” opinions.
Seriously, this entire thread is basically telling people with the “wrong” political stance (in the OPs eyes) to fuck off from the boards. I gather (but may have misread) that at least one long-time poster here has finally had enough of the double standard and abuse and left.
That’s, uh, that’s really not what I see happening. Didn’t happen with Slacker, didn’t happen with monstro or ywtf, doesn’t happen currently with folks who claim to be liberal or leftist but who say nasty bigoted shit. The claim is in general false.
No, the OP is doing that, and a shitload of other people are telling the OP to fuck off. Did you even read this thread?
That said, I’m happy to tell people with the “wrong” political stance–that is, neoNazism–to fuck off. That’s at one end of the spectrum. I’m also happy to tell Klansfolk to fuck off, and others with similarly terrible views. Do you have a problem with telling people with the wrong political stance to fuck off?
Um, with the significant caveat “if they are committed to anti-intellectualism and deliberately undermining good faith discussion”.
ISTM that that’s a reasonable and fair position to hold on a messageboard with a stated mission of fighting ignorance.
It’s not that rational people can’t validly disagree about ideological issues. It’s that so much of the modern right wing has committed itself to ideological positions that can’t be defended rationally. So instead they’ve gone all in on lies, logical fallacies, and other irrational forms of dispute.
I object to the thread title’s conflating that behavior with the entire category of “conservatives”, but rejecting that behavior itself is perfectly fine. And to be fair, if rational conservatives don’t like the close association between the term “conservative” and massive irrationality, dishonesty and bad faith, they need to put in some work cleaning their own house rather than just whining that liberals aren’t being nice to them. Far too many self-identified conservatives these days are a disgrace to the entire concept of rational conservatism.
In what sense do you think that forestalls the possibility of being a conservative?
That “Conservative” means different things in our respective political systems, for a start, along with the fact that what I’ve seen of US Conservatism involves a lot of stuff I’ve explicitly said I’m not supportive of/in favour of.
Broadly? Yes. I might tell them I disagree, I might tell them I really don’t like their views and don’t think they’re very nice or that I think they’re wrong, I might ignore them. What I’m unlikely to do is straight up tell them to fuck off, or abuse them, or really lay into them.
What will you do if somebody from one of the groups they want to oppress and abuse is standing right there hearing what you say to them?
I mean, it’s comparatively easy for those of us who aren’t the direct targets of malevolent bigots’ bigotry to treat the bigots with forbearance or tolerate their presence. But we’re indulging that forbearance kind of at the expense of the bigots’ intended targets.
Depends what’s being said, whether it’s directed at a specific person or just a general comment, and how likely I am to get harmed in some way for getting involved. For most “everyday” casual “-ism” stuff, a “Come on, that’s not cool, knock it off” is probably on the cards.
As much as we’d all like to pretend we’d march right up to that Biker Klansman and point our finger at him and say “Take your disgusting views and fuck off, you vile piece of bigoted pond scum! I will not abide your foulness a moment longer!” then bask in adulation as the chastened offender slinks off while everyone in the cafe applauds, that’s not really how these things tend to work in the real world for people who aren’t SDMB posters.
But what we’re talking about here is our behavior as SDMB posters. Nobody’s demanding that you go marching up to any Biker Klansman in the physical real world.
Here on the SDMB is where the intended targets of vile bigoted pond scum are right in the room participating in the interactions. Shouldn’t we have the courage to tell their vile bigoted pond scum abusers to fuck off, given the comparative safety of the anonymous messageboard environment?
Nope. I refer you to my earlier comment - "I might tell them I disagree, I might tell them I really don’t like their views and don’t think they’re very nice or that I think they’re wrong, I might ignore them. What I’m unlikely to do is straight up tell them to fuck off, or abuse them, or really lay into them."
Of course it does. Your brain is part of the universe and is governed by the same laws as everything else. WTF do you think determines it, your immortal soul?
Can you get much more conservative than a wannabe Imperialist? You just venerate a different historic White supremacy system from the Lost Cause assholes, is all.
Fuck off. Spoken like someone who has never bled for their freedoms. I marched against the Apartheid police and army, you think some racist in a cafe is going to intimidate me into silence, never mind some internet troll?
What can you do when pretty much everyone on the board agrees with the bigotry? Here’s an example from yesterday:
According to this poster conservatives have poor social skills, they don’t value relationships, they are dumb, they are poor - and that’s their own fault (that bit was in an earlier post).
This poster was not pitted, or even really criticised in the thread, for spouting gross stereotypes about an entire group of people. I was going to reply, but I’m tired of being attacked myself… what’s the point when everyone agrees with them?
I don’t agree with Octopus on that, but I do think it is unreasonable to dismiss the idea that the virus escaped from the lab when there are many previous incidents of viruses escaping, and I think it’s pretty shocking that traditional and social media complied in suppressing the idea for political reasons.
I just don’t see how knowing that the virus escaped from a lab helps us stop the pandemic.