# Let me make this perfectly clear **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2000, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-make-this-perfectly-clear/29693 "2000-08-17T05:38:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-make-this-perfectly-clear/29693/21 "2000-08-21T01:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TNTruth \* > \*\* > Secretary of Labor Alexis Herman: influence-peddling and soliciting illegal campaign contributions. Ms. Herman was never found guilty of any charges. > [@](#): > > Clinton health care adviser Ira Magaziner: perjury After a search on this, I was unable to find any information on any criminal investigation into this. > [@](#): > > Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy: Graft and influence peddling. Secretary Espy was acquitted after a trial of all charges. > [@](#): > > Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros: fraud and conspiracy Ms. Jones, Mr. Cisneros’ former lover, ended up serving over three years and paying a significant fine. Mr. Cisneros made a deal, paid a fine, and managed to avoid jail time. BTW, Mr. Cisneros was being charged with lying to the FBI on his background check, not fraud and conspiracy. The prosecutor in the case, David Barrett, said that the case was going to be difficult for the government to win. > [@](#): > > Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell: fraud Mr. Hubbell was hounded by the special counsel a number of times. He did do some jail time, however. > [@](#): > > Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt: Extortion and soliciting illegal campaign contributions. Acquitted. > [@](#): > > Commerce Department official and Democratic National Committee fundraiser John Huang: making illegal campaign contributions. > Secretary of Energy Hazel O’Leary: Graft and influence peddling. > > Commerce Secretary Ron Brown: violation of tax and financial disclosure laws and taking bribes. > > White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum: lying to Congress. > > Environmental Protection Agency administrator Carol M. Browner: violating the federal Anti-Lobbying Act. > > Director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service Jamie Clark: Graft and misappropriating funds. > Most of this stuff is the exact same kind of thing that went on in the Grant and Harding administrations, and gave them such a bad name in the history books. I suspect, though, that history will be kinder to Clinton. > More’s the pity. > Ruth > \*\* Ya know something, I’m not even gonna bother to respond to these one at a time. Suffice it to say, however, that methinks you just hate Clinton. The Republicans tried to undo the 1992 and 1996 elections, plain and simple. That they charged most of the Clinton administration with crimes, or made outrageous misconduct charges against the remainder. The vast majority were cleared either at or before trial. The fact that billions of our dollars were wasted on this farce is enough to keep me from voting Republican on anything more significant than dogcatcher. Sure, Clinton was morally repugnant for his actions. I’m not going to argue that at all. But I think that the fact that the unemployment rate is the lowest it’s ever been, the Dow Jones is at its highest levels, and we’re at a relatively peaceful era points to how good the administration has been for America. I certainly hope the Republican party can keep its mind out of the gutter long enough to pay attention to what the people of this country really want from its government. And I can tell you it’s not more lengthy, expensive, invasive, ridiculous investigations over trivial matters. Robin ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-make-this-perfectly-clear/29693/22 "2000-08-21T18:00:48Z")
**TNTruth** , you could create a very similar, and just as lengthy, a list for Reagan’s White House. You hate him, too? Off the top of my head, there was Meese, Regan, Deaver, Casey, Mossbacher (or was he a Bushie?). People are inherently weak, so every presidency (including the “moral” administration of Carter) has graft and scandals. I think the important thing is how the president responds. Clinton didn’t do a particularly good job, but neither did Reagan. As for the OP, Clinton committed perjury, and therefore should face criminal prosecution after he leaves office. He should not have faced impeachment, as perjury does not fit within the Founding Father’s (admittedly vague) meaning of “high crimes and misdemeanors”. Starr also committed crimes (including allowing grand jury testimony to be leaked), and violated Lewinski’s civil rights by holding her, without allowing her to contact her attorney, at a time **when her affidavit** had not been submitted to court, and therefore she hadn’t committed perjury\*\*. This was heinous. Starr needed something on her, so he prevented her from withdrawing the affidavit before it was filed (or even mailed) so as to force her into committing perjury. Starr and Clinton should share a jail cell. Wouldn’t that be fun? Sua ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-make-this-perfectly-clear/29693/23 "2000-08-21T19:04:00Z")
Clinton-defenders don’t make me angry. But I do find them an odd lot. The crux of your arguments frequently fall to Clinton being held to a higher standard. You all seem to want him to be treated like any other, regular guy. So, what happens to a regular guy when he’s caught having frequent and perverse sex with a young subordinate in the workplace? Hmmm? And if you have a job in which your honor and your word are two of the most important things you have going for you, perhaps lying during a court proceeding wouldn’t be the best tack to take. Not only is it dishonorable; it shows you have the capability of becoming a megalomaniac and placing yourself above the law when you deem it appropriate. Before you affix those labels, I’m one of those weird Clinton-bashers who voted for him. Twice. Admittedly, I’ve seen the light since then. My biggest bitch against him is the way he thought only of himself and denegrated the honor of his office, by not resigning when he got caught. I believe every president before him would have. Now we expect no more from our president than from the manager of the corner porno shop. (Maybe some of you felt that way well before this, but I wasn’t quite so cynical.) Has it REALLY become too much to ask of a president that he love and be faithful to his wife? Does that really make you some kind of freak these days? Can we actually have a couple in office that loves each other and doesn’t simply hold hands when the TV cameras are on them as a political angle? Are values now just interjecting the words “children” and “working families” into a meaningless sound bite, and adopting some new, ineffective governmental program with a sunshine-y name to trim a little more out of my paycheck? Yeah, you can turn the tables around and bitch all you want about George W. and the Republicans. But, given a choice between two valueless and vacuous political parties, I guess I’ll take the one that allows me to keep more of the wages I’ve earned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-me-make-this-perfectly-clear/29693.md?page=1)