# Le't see those rape statistics **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710 "2003-02-26T19:33:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/81 "2003-02-27T01:49:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by js\_africanus \* > **According to the DOJ, in 2000 there were 261,000 rapes in the U.S. (cite) If we assume that that number and pop. stay constant over time, that accumulates to 261,000 \* 50 = 13,050,000. Suppose the half the population is female and that 13,000,000 are assaults against women, that’s 13,000,000 / 140,000,000 = 9.3% of the female population getting raped, or about one out of ten.** I’m not even going to start on what is wrong with this attempted calculation. Attempts like this have been thoroughly gutted in the original thread, way back in GQ (now in GD) that started all this. I will point out, however, that a) these aren’t DOJ reported crime statistics, they’re the result of a survey (with its own definition of “rape”) and b) the 261,000 number isn’t “rapes.” > [@](#): > > \*\*According to the 2000 National Crime Victimization Survey, the total number of rapes, attempted rapes and sexual assaults dropped to 261,000 last year, \*\* And, yes, these are all very different things. Sexual assaults are not “rapes” even under the NCVS definition. > [@](#): > > \*\*For those assholes out there who don’t believe the high rape statistics \*\* Thanks. Now do something for the self-righteous blowhards who’ll believe anything that validates what they already “know.” ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/82 "2003-02-27T02:02:34Z")
Not having an opinion on the poll, I just have something disturbing to say… My brother and myself know lots of girls as friends. These friends have most likely experienced a rape. I’d be hard-pressed to find a girl in my area/group of friends, Etc, between the ages of 16 and 30 who **hadn’t** been raped. The sickest part of all is that it happens SO OFTEN, It’s almost a “right of passage”, or just one of those things that happens when girls grow up these days.If I was to find a girl that wasn’t raped at some point growing up, I’d find it awfully odd. A girl very close to me was raped, her bnest friend was raped, I’m sure friends of friends were raped…it’s basically endemic in our society. Sam ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/83 "2003-02-27T03:14:33Z")
**Truth Seeker** , the only statistics I see in this thread are the ones I provided. Nor do I find any links to contradictory data or analysis. Please provide them. And while you’re at it, please work through the proper calculations using the numbers I provided–purely as a hypothetical–so that it is clear how it should be done, and how the proper calculations differ from my back of the envelope ones. Also, when switching from quotes of one person to another, please indicate that you are doing so. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/84 "2003-02-27T12:29:55Z")
He won’t. If you read the original thread, it’s clear he can’t be bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/85 "2003-02-27T13:43:12Z")
I’m _really_ tired of this shit. I didn’t respond to the GQ thread or the first pit thread because I didn’t see my comments adding anything to the thread. I’m a guy. Interestingly enough, I’m a guy that for some reason females feel comfortable talking to. This lets me hear a lot of things that, in truth, I’d rather not know. I’ve known many rape victims. Some were raped at gun or knife point, some were abused as preteenagers or young teens, some were just bullied into having sex. Rape is not a statistic, it’s a tragedy. I don’t care whether it’s 1 in 4 women are raped in their lifetime or 1 in 20, they’re both too many. I don’t care how you define rape, I don’t care if you want to seperate sexual assault from rape, if you do either, you’re a rapist in my eyes. I’m sorry, if you downplay rape, you’re an idiot or an asshole or maybe a rapist yourself. Trust me that more women in your life have been raped than you would believe. That’s all. I’m sorry if I insulted anyone. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/86 "2003-02-27T14:02:47Z")
Maybe it does sound awful that I think this way, but I always have to wonder what someone’s definition of rape is when they say ‘I was raped.’ simply because there are so many people who make the claim. I’ve heard it said by a woman who got drunk and took her top off at a bar, then said she was ‘raped’ because the men stared at her naked breasts. I’ve heard it said by a woman who got very angry that the stumbling drunk freshman she took home from a party didn’t call her after they had sex. (She used to be a very good friend of mine, and I was at that party. The kid couldn’t walk by himself and was in no condition to know where he was going. He didn’t even have a grasp on his own name at that point.) Then there was my roommate who got very angry with a guy she brought home (btw, thanks. I was asleep.) when he told her he \*\*didn’t want to have sex she got angry and he left (thanks for slamming the door) and the next day she told me he raped her. Then she got mad when I told her she was lying because I was there and heard the entire exchange. My reaction has now become one of skepticism without more clarification beyond ‘I was raped.’ because of those instances. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/87 "2003-02-27T14:03:30Z")
“This poll is completely worthless. How do I know? I fucked it up myself!” **Rhum Runner** , in your first post you call this poll a “waste of time”. Yet you seem to have invested time and effort into both sabotaging it and insulting dopers. Most people here are intelligent enough to realize that the method has shortcomings and can take whatever the results are with a grain of salt. Your “I need to save you from your ignorance” attitude is condescending and insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/88 "2003-02-27T14:21:11Z")
Sure catsix, I’ve known those women, too. I’ve also known women who were raped and beaten by their husbands who don’t say they were raped because they believe their husbands had a right to do what they wanted. I’ve known women who got drunk at a frat party and woke up to find some drunk frat boy rutting on top of them, but don’t consider that rape because “they didn’t say no.” Or women who were date raped, but because they knew their attacker and the situation didn’t escalate to violence, don’t consider it rape. (wring: Discovery is a journey, every step bring you closer. Sometimes it is a very long journey, with meandering paths, and some people take more steps backwards than forwards - but, hey - I can hope.) ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/89 "2003-02-27T14:47:50Z")
I’m not sure what to think of this entire thread. I used to be of the opinion that rape was being over-emphasized by rabid feminists to create hysteria they could exploit for political reasons. But over the last several years I learned a few things that made me think about it a little more. First, I learned that my sister had been raped in college (she doesn’t know that I know about it; she didn’t want any of the men in her family to know. I found out 7 _years_ after the fact.) Second, a girl I knew whilst in college myself confided in me that she passed out drunk at a party and woke up naked, with her vagina very sore. Were both women “raped”? My sister was conscious and at least _said_ ‘no,’ and possibly put up a fight as well. But what of the second girl? If I went to a party, passed out and woke up with my wallet gone, would I not be at least partly to blame? (No, I didn’t say this to her at the time; it occurred to me later.) So I’m not sure what to think anymore. I’m willing to believe people who say that rape is more common than we think. But I’m not willing to classify as “rape” in the same sense acts that a person became involved in because they were drunk, or stoned, or depressed, or etc. (Roofies slipped into their drink are an exception.) Whoever raped my friend was a s guilty of a crime as someone who might’ve taken my wallet in my hypothetical example, but she made herself an easy target through her own carelessness. She is not as much a victim as my sister was. I think it is the latter cases that are still overplayed for political effect. This is a real shame, since it minimizes the suffering of women in the first category, the ones who _didn’t_ do anything stupid to put themselves in harm’s way. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/90 "2003-02-27T14:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\* Anyone who is on the fence and is swayed by your pathetic pseudopoll is an idiot of the second highest order. The only higher order would be the person who conceived the poll in the first place. \*\* That’s funny… I would have thought that the idiot of the second highest order would be one who got thier panties in such a twist over a poll of SDMB women about rape, and that the idiot of the highest order would be the one who went and put in a bogus vote to intentionally skew the results. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/91 "2003-02-27T14:53:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bup \* > **Opal** - theres an option at freepolls to only allow one IP one vote, right? Did you do that? Actually, I don’t believe there is an option to do otherwise (that is, it accpets only one vote per IP–or hell it may even be a cookie, I’m not sure–and there is no way to allow it to accept multiple votes. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/92 "2003-02-27T14:56:02Z")
I agree with Rhum Runner. If you begin your thread (in the Pit, no less) with: > [@](#): > > For those assholes out there who don’t believe the high rape statistics you are saying two othings. 1. Anyone who simply disagrees with my position is an “asshole”. 2. I am going to show these “assholes” up by means of the following misleading technique. I say Opal had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/93 "2003-02-27T14:56:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*_shrug_ > Those who know me well know that this is a subject very near to me and that I do not take lightly. **Opal** , I respect what you’re trying to do here, and I fully agree with the sentiment behind it. I just think that this isn’t the best approach. > > I’m sorry if I’m unclear. \*\* I guess the meaning of the poll is unclear. The main point is to illustrate how a lot of people --even in such a small sampling-- have been raped or sexually assaulted. Go ahead and add in a lying factor, and you’ll still see that out of a not-very-big group, a LOT of people have been raped. That’s the point. If you think there is a better way to show that a lot of SDMB women have been raped, please feel free to do that. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/94 "2003-02-27T15:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > **Can we just agree that getting completely accurate rape statistics is hard, if not impossible, but that there are far, far better ways than an anonymous poll on a message board?** …which is completely irrelevant since we aren’t trying to get “completely accurate rape statistics” here. I suppose that we could round up all the women on the SDMB and have them submit to a battery of physical and psychological tests, polygraph tests, and interview all of their friends… then we might be approaching accuracy. I guess that much of the SDMB might as well not exist, since very little of what is said can be verified. You don’t even know for sure that I’m a woman or that I live in Virginia or that I have a son… hell I could even be paying someone to show up at Dopefests for me. How do we know that all those people really crapped their pants as adults? Or that the people writing the movie reviews even saw the movies or felt that way? They could be summarizing other reviews, for all we know. None of this is meant as an attack on you, lno. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/95 "2003-02-27T15:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dangerosa \* > \*\*Sure catsix, I’ve known those women, too. > > I’ve also known women who were raped and beaten by their husbands who don’t say they were raped because they believe their husbands had a right to do what they wanted. > > I’ve known women who got drunk at a frat party and woke up to find some drunk frat boy rutting on top of them, but don’t consider that rape because “they didn’t say no.” Or women who were date raped, but because they knew their attacker and the situation didn’t escalate to violence, don’t consider it rape.\*\* Don’t these examples cut to the core of what rape _is_? If a person has to be _told_ they’ve been wronged, how are they a true victim? Except for your first subject, these are all murky areas. If the women in the latter cases, who were not subjected to physical violence, feel they were not raped, how is anybody qualified to tell them otherwise? On the other hand (to be consistent with my earlier post) if they feel they were raped, we have to decide what “rape” really is. If xomebody ingests a substance to the point they are no longer in control of their actions, who, then, is responsible for what happens to them? If a person has sex with somebody they know (who, presumably, voluntarily slept with them already) unwillingly, how can “rape” be established? By their own say-so? That’s not a very solid basis to send someone to prison for years on. Using the word “rape” to describe _all_ these contingencies does not seem fair to me. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/96 "2003-02-27T15:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*If you think there is a better way to show that a lot of SDMB women have been raped, please feel free to do that. \*\* why exactly was this the point? crime data demonstrates that rape exists. demonstrating that any specific group of people (such as women of SDMB) includes the category of victims of crime (any/or specific) demonstrates what? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/97 "2003-02-27T15:29:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr\_Paprika \* > \*\*OpalCat’s phrase: > > “For those assholes out there who don’t believe the high rape statistics”… > > is unfortunate… > But one in four? The number is high, I agree. I personally doubt the number is quite that high. \*\* I should point out that my OP didn’t say “those who don’t believe the 1-in-4 statistic” but rather “high rape statistics”… by which my intended point was “those who don’t believe that rape statistics are high.” ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/98 "2003-02-27T15:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > \*\* But I’m not willing to classify as “rape” in the same sense acts that a person became involved in because they were drunk, or stoned, or depressed, or etc. \*\* Of course not. And I suppose you wouldn’t be willing to classify it as “rape” if the woman was wearing a mini-skirt when she was attacked, because she should be smarter than to “tempt” men like that. And how about the gal that goes on an outing with a date-rapist. She really has nothing to complain about, because she should have know what sort of fella she was going out. How about the nun that goes into a bad part of town to help the disadvantaged? Well - if she’s going to go into that neighbourhood, then clearly she shares some responsibility, right? Uh, _ **NO** _. Lets just throw your **RETARDED** analogy out the window, because if you can’t tell the difference between a sexual assult and having your wallet stolen, I guess you won’t mind if your wife either 1) lends your friend $20, or 2) screws him. How about you go to a party at your friend Joe’s house, have a few and fall alseep/pass out. When you wake up, your naked, and your butt is really sore. Maybe you have a bit of anal bleeding. A few days later you develop some lesions on your penis, but you can’t ask the person who gave them to you what they are, _because you don’t know who that is._ Well, you’re obviously partially responsible for this, because you went to a friends house and _fell asleep!_. Certainly, you have no expectation to **NOT BE RAPED** at your friends house, because you were sleeping/passed out. Listen dude, if this is how _YOU_ treat your house-guests, never invite me over, OK? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/99 "2003-02-27T15:34:23Z")
Lizard, They types of cases I’m talking about seldom get reported, if they do get reported, they seldom get prosecuted, and if they get prosecuted, its sure hard to prove rape in a he said/she said case. There should be a special spot in hell for a woman who accuses a man of rape when he didn’t. One of the problems with these discussions is that their is a scale of rape. Somewhere on the far end are the cases that most people see as rape - Violent stranger rape. Someplace on the “few people would consider _that_ rape” end are things like regretted sex (which I don’t consider rape, but there may be people who do). In the middle are date rape, spousal rape, she was drunk, she dressed like a 'ho, statutory rape of a consenting minor who is nearly an adult with her not much older boyfriend, rape where she clearly said no-but didn’t fight back, etc. Some of these are prosecutable crimes. Others are not. Some possibly should be and aren’t, others are and possibly shouldn’t be. Your point is taken. I’d never turn a woman who doesn’t believe she was raped into a victim by telling her _I_ thought it was rape. But I do think if you pass out at a party and find some guy fucking you, you are being raped. I leave a key under my doormat and go to work every weekday. Does that mean if you let yourself into my house and take my stereo when I’m not home, it isn’t stealing? I may blame myself for being so stupid as to leave my key under my doormat and tell you about it, but just because I am partly at fault, doesn’t mean you didn’t steal my stereo. [sub]The key is not under the mat. For illustrative purposes only. Its in the fake rock[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710/100 "2003-02-27T15:34:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by js\_africanus \* > \*\*So, you don’t care about the statistics, you only care that people look at them and learn from them. With all due respect, that seems a bit silly. \*\* By “statistics” here, I meant the percentages. I think that the main point is the raw numbers, or as some have phrased it, the “show of hands”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-see-those-rape-statistics/157710.md?page=6)