# "Let the Democrats help and reach out to the minorities." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113 "2009-02-09T19:04:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/21 "2009-02-10T00:58:01Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Someone might need to make that clear to at least one GOP Congresscritter, then. > > -Joe You mean Congress “Entertainer”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/22 "2009-02-10T01:05:16Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I think you’re missing the point of Rush Limbaugh, **Skald**. He’s not a political commentator; he’s an _entertainer_. You don’t have to believe a word that comes out of his mouth to be amused and entertained by him, _and he knows it_. He is an actor–a comedian–playing a part, and he does it very well. He’s been getting away with this fucking excuse for far too long, and it’s bullshit. When he spouts far right crap and the dittoheads call up to praise him, he basks in it, but when someone calls him on his many mistakes, suddenly “He’s _just_ an entertainer!” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/23 "2009-02-10T01:08:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I find it hard to believe this letter is genuine. It’s the kind of thing a bored and mischievous Democratic operative might write just for giggles. You don’t read Free Republic, do you? While it’d be nice to think that that whole web site is full of Democratic operatives having fun, after awhile you just realize, holy shit, these people are _serious_! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/24 "2009-02-10T01:33:50Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I think you’re missing the point of Rush Limbaugh, **Skald**. He’s not a political commentator; he’s an _entertainer_. You don’t have to believe a word that comes out of his mouth to be amused and entertained by him, _and he knows it_. He is an actor–a comedian–playing a part, and he does it very well. > > Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of “dittoheads” that don’t understand that, either, and they actually believe all the inflated exaggerations that he spouts. So…Rush was Colbert before Colbert was Colbert? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/25 "2009-02-10T01:36:46Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > So…Rush was Colbert before Colbert was Colbert? I’ll believe that the same day I see a quote from Rush about how he doesn’t mean the crap he spews, and that he just does it to make fun of the righties. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/26 "2009-02-10T14:09:16Z")
Apparently, Mr. Trainor has a varied interests. Not satisfied with bigotry, he also dabbles in being a nutjob. [“…Joseph Trainor, the editor of UFO Roundup…”](http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/update.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/27 "2009-02-10T16:10:25Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Apparently, Mr. Trainor has a varied interests. Not satisfied with bigotry, he also dabbles in being a nutjob. > > [“…Joseph Trainor, the editor of UFO Roundup…”](http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/update.shtml) Where do ETs figure into a B.A.C.'s world-view, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/28 "2009-02-10T16:15:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Where do ETs figure into a B.A.C.'s world-view, I wonder? Well, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the little gray SpaceBacks shouldn’t be getting welfare. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/29 "2009-02-10T16:33:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Where do ETs figure into a B.A.C.'s world-view, I wonder? Build a ceiling! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/30 "2009-02-10T23:34:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He’s been getting away with this fucking excuse for far too long, and it’s bullshit. When he spouts far right crap and the dittoheads call up to praise him, he basks in it, but when someone calls him on his many mistakes, suddenly “He’s _just_ an entertainer!” It’s not an excuse, **Czarcasm**. It’s what he is. It’s his game. It’s how he makes his money. Every one of those mistakes gets him more press, more publicity, more recognition. Every time someone buys one of his controversial statements, it’s cash in his pocket. He’s not using “being an entertainer” as an excuse; he’s using it as a bank deposit. > [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > So…Rush was Colbert before Colbert was Colbert? Oh, no. Colbert clearly doesn’t believe what he’s saying, and it’s intended as parody. I think Rush does believe most of what he says, but he exaggerates and plays it up and makes mountains out of molehills. The difference is that some political commentators and talk show hosts (think Al Franken) really are trying to make a difference. I believe that Rush Limbaugh is trying to make money. And he can do that best by being entertaining and controversial and keeping his name in the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/31 "2009-02-10T23:48:18Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Oh, no. Colbert clearly doesn’t believe what he’s saying, and it’s intended as parody. I think Rush does believe most of what he says, but he exaggerates and plays it up and makes mountains out of molehills. So he believes what he says, he’s not doing parody, and he’s trying to make money. Do i understand you correctly? If so, then your attempt to draw a distinction between Rush as entertainer and Rush as political commentator is completely pointless and spurious. If he is not doing parody, and he believes what he says, and he discusses political issues, then he is a political commentator. Period. The fact that he might _also_ be an entertainer is completely irrelevant. Take the other example used right here: Stephen Colbert. While he is an entertainer, and he _is_ doing parody, the fact is that he is _also_ a political commentator. The very fact that his parody is often directed explicitly at political topics makes him, by definition, a political commentator. You seem to believe, for some bizarre reason that i can’t fathom, that “political commentator” and “entertainer” are two mutually exclusive categories.They’re not. You’re argument also completely elides the issue of audience reception and response. You dismiss Rush as political commentator with an airy wave of the hand, noting merely that “there are a whole lot of “dittoheads” that don’t understand” that he’s just an entertainer. But the fact is that millions of people take his political pronouncement seriously, including more than a few in the halls of power. When a person makes public pronouncements; when he makes those pronouncements on political issues; when he believes the substance of what he’s saying; and when he is taken seriously by a large number of people; then he’s a political commentator, and your contrasting of “political commentator” and “entertainer” boils down to a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/32 "2009-02-10T23:56:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > When a person makes public pronouncements; when he makes those pronouncements on political issues; when he believes the substance of what he’s saying; and when he is taken seriously by a large number of people; then he’s a political commentator, and your contrasting of “political commentator” and “entertainer” boils down to a distinction without a difference. You’re just hung up on old-fashioned notions like “truth” and “accuracy”. Rush has moved beyond those things. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/33 "2009-02-11T00:12:27Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Vietnam (Nixon, continuing from Democratic Party-led intervention) > ) And begun under Eisenhower. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/34 "2009-02-11T00:14:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > And begun under Eisenhower. True enough, although at least Ike was honest enough to admit that Ho Chi Minh would easily have won a free, fair and democratic election, had one been allowed to proceed in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/35 "2009-02-11T00:23:03Z")
When did he make that admission, during or after his presidency? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/36 "2009-02-11T00:37:05Z")
I envy people who feel like this has to be a gag. I hear political opinions this ridiculous and offensive (and worse) every single day from real people in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/37 "2009-02-11T01:52:56Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > [“…Joseph Trainor, the editor of UFO Roundup…”](http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/update.shtml) I assume that his comments on the need to round up illegal aliens were cut from the letter for reasons of, er, space. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/38 "2009-02-11T01:54:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > When did he make that admission, during or after his presidency? Well, the certainty of Ho Chi Minh winning an election was conceded by basically everyone in Vietnam in the mid-1950s. Eisenhower’s own Indochina specialists told him exactly that. Whether Eisenhower admitted this knowledge during his presidency is not clear to me. He certainly made it clear enough in his memoir, _Mandate for Change_, which was published in 1963. In that book, he said: > [@](#): > > I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai. Eisenhower’s book isn’t available online, but you can find the quote at the bottom of p. 126 of William Blum’s _Killing Hope_, viewable in Google Books [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=-IbQvd13uToC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PPA126,M1). Also, Blum mentions a National Intelligence Estimate from 1954. That estimate says: > [@](#): > > On the basis of present trends, it is highly unlikely that South Vietnam will develop the strength necessary to counter the growing Communist subversion within its borders; it also certainly would not be able to defeat the Communists in country-wide elections." That is from National Intelligence Estimate 63-7-54, dated November 23, 1954. Because the CIA’s [FOIA Reading Room](http://www.foia.cia.gov/) is retarded and provides no way to link directly to individual documents, i’ve uploaded the relevant [page](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/nie_63-7-54.pdf) (pdf) to my webspace. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113/39 "2009-02-11T06:34:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > While everyone else is picking the low-hanging fruit of stupidity, I thought I’d take this point:Is this really how he sees the American political landscape; that all else is equal and it’s the born-again Christians who are the kingmakers? They’ve been important in more than a few elections. I don’t know if they’re as important as the letter in the OP claims, but losing even a fraction of their votes would have lost Bush 2 both elections. Considering they were a group that voted in record numbers both times, I’d say they’re at least partially responsible for Dubbya. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-democrats-help-and-reach-out-to-the-minorities/485113.md?page=1)