# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/181 "2005-03-19T06:46:36Z")
> [@Carnick](#): > > how do we know if Terri is experiencing any pain or awareness? Much in the same way that we know that Abraham Lincoln wouldn’t experience any pain if you dug up his corpse and kicked it in the head. Terri doesn’t exist any more. All of the parts of her brain that are responsible for awareness and cognitive thought have long since been replaced by spinal fluid. All of those thing that made Terri a human being (as opposed to something cognitively equivalent to a slime-mold) have ceased to be. What really bugs me about this conversation is how everyone keeps referring to Terri Schiavo as “she”. Look, people; Terri is no longer there. _She_ died 15 years ago. What lies in that bed, connected to tubes and kept “alive” by the miracles of modern science, is nothing more than a container that once played host to a woman named Terri Schiavo. But Terri has been gone for well over a decade, now. I see no reason to continue to coerce this corpse to engage in metabolic processes. Its whole reason for being, the woman who once called that body “me”, has ceased to exist. She is gone past all hope of recovery. Shouldn’t we just allow the body she left behind to stop functioning now that it’s served its purpose? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/182 "2005-03-19T17:55:42Z")
[Oh, Geez.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20050319/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman) > [@](#): > > Three men, led by anti-government activist James Gordon “Bo” Gritz, were arrested on misdemeanor trespassing charges after trying to enter the hospice Saturday with bread and water to give Schiavo. My biology teacher was right - some people are just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/183 "2005-03-19T18:13:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Three men, led by anti-government activist James Gordon “Bo” Gritz, were arrested on misdemeanor trespassing charges after trying to enter the hospice Saturday with bread and water to give Schiavo. I guess this is the extent of the misinformation out there–they really think that she could eat it. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/184 "2005-03-19T18:27:25Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > [Oh, Geez.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20050319/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman) > My biology teacher was right - some people are just plain stupid. The point of this exercise was certainly not to be sincerely trying to feed her, it was symbolic. It’s meant to confuse people who only follow the story tangentially. Ironically, in the Republican political playbook parlance, it’s known as “waking the brain dead” i.e. getting people who otherwise don’t really know what’s what behind you by acts which mislead them into thinking a situation is very different than it actually is. While these people might later find out that they were misled, in most cases cognitive dissonance will prevent them from recanting in the long term, and in the short term they can be very effective as political muscle. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/185 "2005-03-19T18:56:06Z")
I know that Mrs. Schindler made a plea to President Bush today - can Bush step in? Was it the US Supreme Court or the Florida Supreme Court who declared it uncontitutional? Does Bush have the authority to step in on this? This is heartbreaking. If anything, it’s just made me insure that my husband AND my parents know that without a doubt I do NOT want to be kept alive like this. My MIL has made her feelings perfectly clear to me, too, in that she wouldn’t want it either, so it seems that we’re covered. I can’t help but feel some pity for the Schindlers in that they are so delusioned to think that their daughter might return to them some day. E. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/186 "2005-03-19T19:29:17Z")
> [@Elza B](#): > > Was it the US Supreme Court or the Florida Supreme Court who declared it uncontitutional? The Florida Supreme Court overruled “Terri’s Law.” I don’t know for sure, but a higher court may have declined the case. I say that because I’d be surprised if nobody appealed. The US Supreme Court declined to get involved in this thing on (I think) Thursday evening. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/187 "2005-03-19T19:35:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Florida Supreme Court overruled “Terri’s Law.” I don’t know for sure, but a higher court may have declined the case. I say that because I’d be surprised if nobody appealed. The US Supreme Court declined to get involved in this thing on (I think) Thursday evening. The “Terri’s law” appeal was refused by the U.S. Supreme Court, thereby allowing the Florida Supreme Court decision to stand. The House Committe on Egregious Bullshit has appealed to both courts to overturn Judge Greer’s decision of yesterday; both denied the appeal. Mr. Schiavo did a nice job of ripping Congress a new one this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/188 "2005-03-19T19:45:41Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > The House Committe on Egregious Bullshit \*\* God, ya gotta love that! If that wouldn’t be Truth in Labeling, I don’t know what would. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/189 "2005-03-19T22:45:20Z")
Speaking of congressional bullshit: (and the President jumped in with gusto too): [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050319/ap\_on\_go\_co/brain\_damaged\_woman\_congress\_6](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050319/ap_on_go_co/brain_damaged_woman_congress_6) > [@](#): > > Congress Announces Deal in Schiavo Case Gee… They become congressional leaders in ass decisions like this one! Partisanship? What partisanship? Notice how the fact that Republicans initiated this is left out here. > [@](#): > > hoped a deal reached Saturday would clear the way for a brain-damaged woman to resume being fed while a federal court reviews the right-to-die battle between her parents and her husband. > “We think we have found a solution” to the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a Capitol Hill news conference. What solution oh wise one? > [@](#): > > "We are confident this compromise addresses everyone’s concerns Yeah, I see what the concern of doctors, judges and all the final decisions of the state of Florida are toilet paper to you. > [@](#): > > we are confident it will provide Mrs. Schiavo a clear and appropriate avenue for appeal in federal court After reading the more reliable information on this case, this is one of the most idiotic things ever said in the floor of congress! It is official, Tom DeLay is a supporter of ignorance and I am getting tired of republicans of conscience and intelligence that with their inaction are condoning this incredible asshole. > [@](#): > > and most importantly, we are confident this compromise will restore nutrition and hydration to Mrs. Schiavo as long as that appeal endures," he said. My brain hurts, are you still saying she can appeal? > [@](#): > > Final approval was hoped for Sunday when the House planned to meet in a special session, he said. The Senate intended to meet Saturday evening on the matter. I will be not surprised that some Democrats will go for this but it is the party in power that is responsible for making this a priority: It is pathetic that the cuts and deficit that are coming to support the fearless leader’s tax cuts in time of war, are not going to be in the news next week, but I am beginning to thing this distraction is generated just so the sheep (I am going to say it, there is no other way to describe behavior like this) will be happy. The whole thing stinks like a shit stained political football. > [@](#): > > President Bush (news - web sites) was expected to sign the bill as soon as it gets to him. I am proud to say I did not vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/190 "2005-03-19T22:48:41Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This is a definitional issue and a philosophical one, I suppose, but to me, she died 15 years ago when her cerebral cortex (the high brain, the physical seat of the personality, memories, and all conscious thought) shut down and could not be revived. As far as I’m concerned, once the high brain cannot be revived what’s left is the equivalent of a corpse: It has no personality or memories or even sensation and is no longer human in any way that counts. It’s a dead person that happens to have a pulse and some other autonomic reflexes left. > > If you want to debate with me on this, I’m more than willing. But before you do, take the time to do a bit of research into the difference between a persistent vegetative state and a coma. What. the. fuck. is. this? I suggest, **Derleth** that you effing read my many many posts on this topic in the several threads that exist on it. YO-I am an RN who deals with this issue quite frequently–I know all about the differences between coma and PVS–more so than you. She is NOT dead–she is BRAIN DEAD. IF you had bothered to actually read my posts, you would see that I not only agree with you, but I act in my role as nurse, as an ADVOCATE for these type of pts. grrrrrrr. Like this thread isn’t already full of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/191 "2005-03-19T22:52:13Z")
If Congress is going to step in because someone is being starved, surely they’ll start stepping in when conscious individuals are going hungry. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/192 "2005-03-19T23:07:20Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > YO-I am an RN who deals with this issue quite frequently–I know all about the differences between coma and PVS–more so than you. She is NOT dead–she is BRAIN DEAD. She is NOT brain dead. She may be mostly brain dead, if you can be such a thing. Dems, don’t kid yourselves. The Democrats worked with the Republicans on this compromise the whole way and have shown little or no spine here. They’re afraid of the backlash they’d get and apparently don’t care a bit about the law or Terri Schiavo. I’m disgusted. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/193 "2005-03-19T23:09:47Z")
This is happening because these ignorant assholes are better mobilized then we who are grounded in reality. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/194 "2005-03-19T23:10:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > apparently don’t care a bit about the law or Terri Schiavo. I’m disgusted. the law I’m concerned about is the right of the next of kin to determine health care. I am shocked, offended, horrified that this systematic abuse of that right is being assaulted. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/195 "2005-03-19T23:20:11Z")
> [@wring](#): > > the law I’m concerned about is the right of the next of kin to determine health care. I am shocked, offended, horrified that this systematic abuse of that right is being assaulted. What abuse is that? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/196 "2005-03-19T23:24:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If Congress is going to step in because someone is being starved, surely they’ll start stepping in when conscious individuals are going hungry. Right? Also: they’ll start stepping in because people do not have universal health insurance, after all, most of the bankruptcies happen in the USA because of health care costs, so, I think this will be also a priority for the greatest congress ever elected to defend the homeland! ```auto _________ | | | PUTZES! | | _________ | / / ``` :mad: ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/197 "2005-03-19T23:28:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What abuse is that? abuse of legislative process - enacting legislation specifically designed to only address one specific individual situation, and in this case, specifically to thwart the right of the next of kin. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/198 "2005-03-19T23:31:08Z")
Living Will is the best revenge. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/199 "2005-03-19T23:33:57Z")
I can’t do this anymore. To those who insist that TS is not brain dead etc–keep your illusions. If you think that PVS is the same as coma–so be it. If you think you can deal w/o a cerebral cortex, by all means, please show me. I am done with trying to open your dead brains and your closed minds. And when the Gment steps in and stops you from terminating life support on your brain dead mother/child/cousin; when your loved one is not allowed a peaceful death from cancer d/t assholes who are terrified of death–thank your GOP and your ignorance. TS is a tiny part of this whole fight. I am also deeply concerned about the Feds interfering in this most private of matters–but if you dont’ see it, enjoy your ignorance; it wiil bite you in the ass one day. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/200 "2005-03-19T23:37:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > To those who insist that TS is not brain dead etc–keep your illusions. Have you read any of my posts, you moron? I’m all for letting her die. Story after story about this situation explains that she is not brain dead and has some lower brain function. > [@](#): > > If you think that PVS is the same as coma–so be it. If you think you can deal w/o a cerebral cortex, by all means, please show me. I don’t and I don’t, learn to read. > [@](#): > > I am done with trying to open your dead brains and your closed minds. Go away and get bent, then, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=11)