# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/241 "2005-03-21T03:43:23Z")
Who was Ellen James? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/242 "2005-03-21T04:00:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Who was Ellen James? She was a character in _The world According to Garp._ She was a 12 year old girl who was raped and had her tonge cut out to keep her from speaking. The Ellen Jamesians were a radical feminist group who cut out their own tongues as a sympathetic protest. It was basically John Irving’s parody of political extremism. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/243 "2005-03-21T04:03:00Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > [Yay for bitpartisanship](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=7953363). I went to the Senate’s site and found the bill. It says it passed without amendment by voice vote. But it says nothing of whom was in attendence. Did the Dems just not go in today, or were there some that voted Yea? I can’t imagine _every_ Dem voting in favor, but I can’t find who all was there. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/244 "2005-03-21T05:23:25Z")
Randall Terry. :wally I am watching this on Foxnews and they are referring to him in writing as Terry Randall. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/245 "2005-03-21T05:39:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I went to the Senate’s site and found the bill. It says it passed without amendment by voice vote. But it says nothing of whom was in attendence. > > Did the Dems just not go in today, or were there some that voted Yea? I can’t imagine _every_ Dem voting in favor, but I can’t find who all was there. CNN says: Republican: 156 YEA, 5 NAY, 71 NV (no vote?) Democrat: 47 YEA, 53 NAY, 102 NV ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/246 "2005-03-21T05:46:39Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > CNN says: > > Republican: 156 YEA, 5 NAY, 71 NV (no vote?) > > Democrat: 47 YEA, 53 NAY, 102 NV That’s the House vote, not the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/247 "2005-03-21T06:45:52Z")
Sorry. Anyway, I’m so frustrated I’d like to punch the wall, but Mr. Rilch is asleep. My Beaker doll has about as much life in him as Terry Schiavo does. When. Is. This. Going. To. End?! ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/248 "2005-03-21T07:45:02Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > CNN says: > > Republican: 156 YEA, 5 NAY, 71 NV (no vote?) > > Democrat: 47 YEA, 53 NAY, 102 NV Well, thank you _very much_ Democratic party. Real glad I voted for you. Really, from the bottom of my heart. Great. Knowing my luck, the conditions of the “compromise” probably mean that some stupid _leftist_ case that won’t actually help anyone will get to go through next, or something. Aagh. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/249 "2005-03-21T08:14:34Z")
Do I understand correctly, that it needed 2/3 vote in the House, and if all the Democrats voted nay, it wouldn’t have passed? :smack: Excuse me, I’ve got to go and translate my resume into Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/250 "2005-03-21T08:34:36Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > My Beaker doll has about as much life in him as Terry Schiavo does. Judging from what I saw on television today, that is either incorrect, or you have an amazing Beaker doll. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/251 "2005-03-21T08:36:33Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Judging from what I saw on television today, that is either incorrect, or you have an amazing Beaker doll. What do you think you saw on television which would indicate that Schiavo has any more sense than a plush toy? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/252 "2005-03-21T08:42:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What do you think you saw on television which would indicate that Schiavo has any more sense than a plush toy? Her eyes seemed to follow a ballon that was held over her (by her father, I think?). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/253 "2005-03-21T08:47:38Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Her eyes seemed to follow a ballon that was held over her (by her father, I think?). I figured that’s what it was. What that is, is a couple of moments of coincidental random movement cherry-picked from hundreds of hours of video tape. > [@](#): > > At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli. > The experts also disagreed about whether any treatment could improve Terri’s condition. The two experts selected by the Schindlers each proposed a potential therapy method, but the trial court rejected both of them based on “the total absence of supporting case studies or medical literature.” > > Affirming those decisions, the Second District explained that it, too, reviewed the videotapes of Terri in their entirety as well as Terri’s brain scans. The appellate court explained that it not only affirmed the decision but that, were it to review the evidence and make its own decision, the court would reach the same result reached by the trial court. [http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html](http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/254 "2005-03-21T09:16:12Z")
Oh. Well, I am still in no hurry to starve this ‘plush toy’ to death. Given the number of legal reviews and appeals we give criminals all of the time, I don’t have any problem with the feds getting a look at this case. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/255 "2005-03-21T09:41:08Z")
This isn’t ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/256 "2005-03-21T09:42:51Z")
Holy shit! Somebody has a plush toy that can breathe, maintain a heartbeat, and and move on its own?!? :eek: Put that sumbitch on e-Bay. You’re set for life! By the way, now that my original suspicion is proven that the Dems have also gone along with this (and some GOP have gone against) any chance some of the vitriol towards Republicans can die down? Probably as likely as liberals conceding America _is_ conservative to the point that their pet party is to the left of them. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/257 "2005-03-21T09:44:10Z")
Or right of them. Either way. :smack: dammit ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/258 "2005-03-21T09:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I am still in no hurry to starve this ‘plush toy’ to death. Given the number of legal reviews and appeals we give criminals all of the time, I don’t have any problem with the feds getting a look at this case. What questions remain unanswered? A court reviewed the evidence and determined that Terri would not want to be kept alive in this state, and that finding has withstood multiple appeals. Why on Earth should we hash it all out again? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/259 "2005-03-21T09:46:58Z")
This isn’t a case of someone on death row. This is a case about the refusal of care, which is a well established an uncontroversial issue. Terri isn’t appealling to stay alive. Those legally entitled to speak for her interests are trying to free her of the artificial life support it was determined that she would not want to maintain her in such a state. And the feds looking at the case? Here’s an ultra-conservative who’s a little less offhandedly enthusiastic… because he actually has a law degree: > [@](#): > > It looks like Congress has taken what I think is the unprecedented and rather bizarre step of expanding the jurisdiction of the federal courts to allow a particular District Court to take jurisdiction over a single case, that of Terri Schiavo. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/260 "2005-03-21T09:48:50Z")
> [@](#): > > By the way, now that my original suspicion is proven that the Dems have also gone along with this (and some GOP have gone against) any chance some of the vitriol towards Republicans can die down? Probably as likely as liberals conceding America is conservative to the point that their pet party is to the left of them. Oh, I’ll be doing no such thing; after all, the Republicans are the ones sponsoring and driving all this Congressional horseshit. But don’t worry; I have plenty to say about the Democrats for failing to speak out against it sufficiently, and those who actually voted for it can count on a world of shit from me and other like-minded souls come primary time. This is not something I plan to forget. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=14)