# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/281 "2005-03-21T14:29:04Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > But every one of us US citizens (Hey! I’m remembering to clarify! Whee!) can be affected by what happens in, well probably not this case, but a case in the near future based on the decision of this case. Every one of us US citizens will be affected by this because Congress has decided to stick their nose in where it doesn’t belong. Be afraid. Be very afraid. How long before someone’s living will will be contested because “She didn’t understand it” or “That’s not his signature?” Terri was a young woman, and all Michael had to go on was a few passing remarks she made. I don’t know what the deal is with her parents, but they frighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/282 "2005-03-21T14:32:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Pit your party. You knew the GOP would do what you didn’t want, but the party you trust to thwart us didn’t even show up. Snort. I don’t trust them to thwart anybody. Who would? Of course, they’ve done fairly well with the Social Security Reform issue, since it seems most people aren’t for it and it’s not really moving along. I’m trying to decide which of the following is their plan for the next two years: “duck and cover” or “bend over.” It may be that they’re hoping they will gain seats in '06 because people will feel sorry for them. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/283 "2005-03-21T14:33:25Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > if you want to pit the Dems, feel free…let’s stick to the matter at hand. You’re damn well smart enough to know almost every thread on this topic is to slam the GOP. After, what, 6 pages in this one, it seems to revolve around the topic. Yet I put to you the fact that your pet party isn’t really trying to prevent the legislation, and I’m supposed to leave to start a new thread to Pit the Dems? Been there, done it, posted bond. (Shit! That would make for a great novelty T-shirt! I want royalties) :dubious: I’m sticking to the point of the thread, defending “my” party by turning it back on your side for not really doing anything to block the legislation. Denial is a bitch of a burden. I thought you were strong enough to face it. Yet again, I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/284 "2005-03-21T14:33:39Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > [Here](http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll090.xml) for the House. The Senate was a voice vote, which is not recorded by name. I can’t figure out if either of my Senators was even there. Many thanks. Shit shit shit shit. My Rep effing voted “yea”. Jesse Jackson Jr–prepare to meet my wrath. (but first, off to have the oil changed in the Volvo). Damn damn damn. Sometimes I wish I were in a cartoon and could just throw lightening bolts at people… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/285 "2005-03-21T14:37:02Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Be afraid. Be very afraid. How long before someone’s living will will be contested because “She didn’t understand it” or “That’s not his signature?” Shit. You mean witnesses and Notary Publics are going to be done away with? Fuck it, I’m moving to **dufferland**. It’s a small island in the south Pacific, but since we’ll all be naked I’m sure there will be room. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/286 "2005-03-21T14:47:37Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > Can someone please explain to me why you think Terry’s husband would be more interested in her best interests than her parents? :dubious: Why does everyone think parents are the end-all be-all of a kids’ wishes? I know for a fact that my fiance has a much greater grasp of my wishes, desires, than my parents do. My parents have no clue, and choose to remain that way - they think they know best for me, and they have never shown that my opinion means much to them. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/287 "2005-03-21T15:03:45Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Shit. You mean witnesses and Notary Publics are going to be done away with? Fuck it, I’m moving to **dufferland**. It’s a small island in the south Pacific, but since we’ll all be naked I’m sure there will be room. 😉 Several Florida judges (remember, the yokels who don’t know their ass from the elbow?) have ruled that Terri did not want to live like this. She didn’t have a living will, as she was 26 and who thinks about such things when they’re 26 and newly married? In the absence of a living will, I would say the judge’s ruling is just as good. Her parents stamping their feet and saying, “No no no no no no!” doesn’t change anything. This is a state issue, not a federal issue. Congress needs to butt out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/288 "2005-03-21T15:16:43Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I’m sticking to the point of the thread, defending “my” party by turning it back on your side for not really doing anything to block the legislation. That’s what passes for ‘defending’ these days? _Tu quoque_? That says a lot about where politics is at, I think. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/289 "2005-03-21T15:19:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > This is a state issue, not a federal issue. Congress needs to butt out. Now I’m stomping my feet. I hate a media where only electrons convey words, inflection and expression. I completely agree with your point. I want state’s to decide civil law and have the Feds take care of roads, defense, etc. That notion was shaken by a few Supreme Court rulings. Cases that began as state suits, but became basis for national law. A…Abo…ah, hell, to I have to spell it out? Once something this big hits the courts, it opens a whole can of worms for the other states to deal with. Will there someday be national legislation? I don’t know. Will a state someday set precedent to base decisions on by other states? Bet the farm on it. She’s had a feeding tube for 15 years. I don’t see the harm in allowing her to live a few more months while it’s debated and figured out what to do in these situations. Weren’t we all told to not “rush to judgement” a few years back? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/290 "2005-03-21T15:41:02Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > any chance some of the vitriol towards Republicans can die down? Not from this quarter. They can ram this through over a weekend, but can’t get spending under control, secure the borders, remove the AMT sword of Damocles, or address any of the other national issues they got elected to handle? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/291 "2005-03-21T15:47:54Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > She’s had a feeding tube for 15 years. I don’t see the harm in allowing her to live a few more months while it’s debated and figured out what to do in these situations. > > Weren’t we all told to not “rush to judgement” a few years back? But you see, **duffer** my love, my fellow libertarian/conservative, IT’S ALREADY BEEN FIGURED OUT. This case has been bandied back and forth for the past several years. 19 judges have heard the case. Both sides have had ample opportunity to have their voices heard. What’s happening now is that Congress is basically saying that the Florida judges can’t decide this case the “right” way, so they want to review it. It’s insulting to the Florida judiciary. A few senators, after looking at a heavily edited videotape, are presuming that they know more about the situation than the Florida judges who have sat and listened to both sides make arguments. There’s nothing more to decide, other than to satisfy Congress’s curiousity. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/292 "2005-03-21T15:50:36Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > But every one of us US citizens (Hey! I’m remembering to clarify! Whee!) can be affected by what happens in, well probably not this case, but a case in the near future based on the decision of this case. I understand your fear **duffer**. Anyone who shows as many signs of brain atrophy as you have in this thread probably has some reason to be worried about this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/293 "2005-03-21T15:54:45Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > She’s had a feeding tube for 15 years. I don’t see the harm in allowing her to live a few more months while it’s debated and figured out what to do in these situations. This is at least the THIRD time you could say “what’s the harm in waiting a few more months” in this controversy. Look at the gap in time between the time the feeding tube was reinserted for the second time (October 2003 because of "Terri’s Law) and the time it was removed again (Friday). If it’s reasonable to extrapolate from that, it could take another year and a half for this to work its way through the courts, have the tube removed, and then maybe she’ll die or somebody else will come up with something else absurd, because what’s another few months. It hasn’t been a few months, **duffer**. The ruling that she didn’t want to live came down more than five years ago. And at that point she’d already been living that way for ten years. This is not even a controversy, as the courts have said the same thing over and over again. Has the concept of “enough is enough” been abolished? > [@](#): > > Weren’t we all told to not “rush to judgement” a few years back? This is a RUSH? ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/294 "2005-03-21T16:02:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You’re damn well smart enough to know almost every thread on this topic is to slam the GOP. After, what, 6 pages in this one, it seems to revolve around the topic. Yet I put to you the fact that your pet party isn’t really trying to prevent the legislation, and I’m supposed to leave to start a new thread to Pit the Dems? > > Been there, done it, posted bond. (Shit! That would make for a great novelty T-shirt! I want royalties) :dubious: > > I’m sticking to the point of the thread, defending “my” party by turning it back on your side for not really doing anything to block the legislation. Denial is a bitch of a burden. > > I thought you were strong enough to face it. Yet again, I’m wrong. This weird kind of argument keeps popping up in threads. Is it a normal result of a two-party system, that you have to pick the side that you voted for in all matters? So if the Republicans decide to euthanise all people above 65 you will automatically defend that stance? I just don’t get this reasoning at all. What has being a republican or a democrat have to do with Terry Schiavo’s case? Does being a republican excuse you from taking part in the human race? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/295 "2005-03-21T16:11:47Z")
Reading all six pages of this sprawl was painful. Like so many polarizing issues, this is no longer about the woman on life support. It’s about pandering for votes and usurpation of states’ rights by an out-of-control congress. The House doesn’t give one rat’s ass about Terri’s life or her family. All they see is a large voting block of right-to-life windbags and will tromp all over anyone else’s rights in order to pander to them. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/296 "2005-03-21T16:23:18Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > . Denial is a bitch of a burden. > > I thought you were strong enough to face it. Yet again, I’m wrong. I have no idea what you are talking about here. You act (at least in the post I quoted) like it is the Dems’ “fault” that this travesty is occuring. to that I say that while the Dems are certainly not looking bold and decisive, but they are not the ones who are handing out memos stating that this is a great political point for the conservative “Christians” in '06; they are not the ones who PUSHED this thru and apparently, they are not the ones who are touting “family and life first” etc. Truly they are among the fallen, but to whom should we look for the great evil? Dunno 'bout you, but I see red. As to my “strength”–you totally lost me there. I bet I could take down Frist, but it wouldn’t be a fair fight–I would truth, justice and the American way on my side… 😛 My concern (the reason I posted that particular quote from you) was that the thread would veer off into Red vs. Blue etc. I am sorry if you feel the GOP is getting a bad rap here, but the Dems who were lame enough to vote “yea” are not getting a pass from anyone here, so far as I can tell. All deserve our scorn–but every Dem(1/2) who voted nay as well as every Rep(small minority) deserves an accolade. General question–I wonder how many no vote Dems honestly thought that this was such a BS bill that it wasn’t worth staying in town for? I bet a goodly number. And I do think that the Reps were told to stay in town… ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/297 "2005-03-21T17:08:00Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Did you notice there were “Nay” votes from some GOP’s? If nothing else they were at least able to take time out of their precious time off to vote against it. Where the hell were the lazy, yet outraged, Dems? > > Pit your party. You knew the GOP would do what you didn’t want, but the party you trust to thwart us didn’t even show up. You may be surprised to learn that I agree with this 100%. So much so, in fact, that I’ve expressed as much to my Congressional Representative. > [@](#): > > Dear Congresswoman Harman, > > I am extraordinarily angry and disappointed in you and your lack of representation on an issue that should be of utmost concern to all of us; the right to determine the direction of our own medical care and the right choose the fate of our own bodies at death. I refer specifically to your non-vote on the outrageous bill shoved through by Republicans this weekend, that forced Terri Schiavo’s brain-dead body to once again have to be invaded by a foreign object at the will of, not herself, not her lawful next-of-kin (her husband, Michael Schiavo), not her court appointed guardian, but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. > > The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT should have no right whatsoever to interfere in such a personal and private matter, ESPECIALLY when it’s been proven with “clear and convincing evidence” that this would not have been what this woman would have wanted. This is a matter between Mrs. Schiavo, her legal next-of-kin and her doctors. Her parents have no standing and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT absolutely shouldn’t. > > And yet you allowed your Republican co-horts to take the first steps towards my husband and I being rendered completely impotent against Christian conservatives should they want to brutalize our otherwise-dead bodies by artificial means without our consent, should we ever be in the unfortunate circumstance that Mr. & Mrs. Schiavo are in. The matter of CHOICE is important. No, it’s CRITICAL. And yet you were a no-show. I simply do not know how to adequately express my fears and concerns regarding what this administration is trying to do to my rights and freedoms, and my anger at your lack of effort to stop them. > > Regrettably, > [Real Name] ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/298 "2005-03-21T17:31:14Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Dunno. At least one more, it appears. Of course, if she had a living will, this whole affair wouldn’t be an issue, but like too many young people, she didn’t. In the meanwhile, take a deep breath and relax. If she remain on a feeding tube for another year, I don’t see the tragedy. If she is as far gone as some claim, then no harm done. If not, then no harm done. > > _Shrug_ You honestly think this legal insanity is some normal process of appeal? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/299 "2005-03-21T18:39:11Z")
The parents are totally out of touch with reality. [http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html) > [@](#): > > Bob Schindler said he visited his daughter Monday in the Pinellas Park, Florida, hospice where she is a patient. > > “I asked her if she was ready to take a little ride, and I told her that we were going to take her for a little trip and take her outside and get her some breakfast, and that got a big smile out of her face, so help me God,” Schindler said. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/300 "2005-03-21T19:06:29Z")
**Shayna** Excellent letter. I my paraphrase it, if that is all right. These letters will be hand written (I read somewhere that emails are not counted as much as handwritten letters). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=16)