# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/401 "2005-03-23T00:31:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You are missing one thing: the man is a complete fucking ass. The man is a complete fucking ass, and he has been told to try and turn this activist Congress thing into some bullshit about “activist judges.” The two things you are missing are that he’s an ass and “activist judges.” And that he’s pandering to the religious right. The THREE things you’re missing are that Santorum is a cretinous pukeswilling jackass, “activist judges bad,” and his sucking up to religious fanatics. And an almost _fanatical_ devotion to George W. Bush. The FOUR things you’re missing are- no, AMONGST the things you are missing are such elements as asshattery, activist judges… I’ll come in again. IIRC, one of the man’s own colleagues once said that “Santorum” is “Latin for ‘asshole’”. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/402 "2005-03-23T00:34:39Z")
**MsRobyn** , I’m so sorry to hear about your child. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/403 "2005-03-23T00:36:27Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > How many of you have children? I have an eight year old daughter. Just as much of a no brainer of it were her lacking in grey matter. I can’t imagine what would make parents want to keep their child in such a state. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/404 "2005-03-23T00:38:39Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > IIRC, one of the man’s own colleagues once said that “Santorum” is “Latin for ‘asshole’”. That’s hilarious. I looked it up; the Senator is question was Bob Kerrey. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/405 "2005-03-23T00:53:20Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > I simply find it disturbing that my rights as a parent are completely sublimated when my child gets married. I find it equally disturbing that you think a parent should have such control over their child’s life, even after said child gets married, to the detriment of the matrimonial bond. And finally, it’s not about YOUR rights as a parent, it’s about YOUR CHILD’s rights. Period. I am an adult. My rights and wishes outweigh those of my parents, when it comes to MY life. I have told my parents that if I am ever in Schiavo’s state, I do NOT want to be kept on a feeding tube. Not as an “off the cuff musing”, but very clearly and determined. ---
**Author:** ![widdleytinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@widdleytinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdleytinks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/406 "2005-03-23T01:56:27Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > I keep wondering how long Terry knew Michael before they were married, and how long they’d been married when this happened to her. The Schiavo’s were married in 1984. The heart attack happened in 1990. I can find no information regarding the length of their dating period. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen this link posted already on the Schiavo threads, but here it is again. Maintained by an attorney, it tracks the case from the beginning. http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html regards, widdley ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/407 "2005-03-23T02:11:37Z")
> [@widdleytinks](#): > > The Schiavo’s were married in 1984. The heart attack happened in 1990. I can find no information regarding the length of their dating period. The Wolfson Report says they dated for “many months.” Doesn’t help much. The only other clue is that it seems to say Terri weighed 250 pounds at age 18 (Dec. 1981), and that she met him during the period in which she dropped from 250 to around 150 pounds, or after she’d lost all that weight, with no indication of how long it took. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/408 "2005-03-23T02:12:50Z")
> [@widdleytinks](#): > > > [@fessie](#): > > > > I keep wondering how long Terry knew Michael before they were married, and how long they’d been married when this happened to her. > > The Schiavo’s were married in 1984. The heart attack happened in 1990. I can find no information regarding the length of their dating period. I found the answer [here](http://journals.aol.com/justice1949/JUSTICEFORTERRISCHIAVO/entries/728): > [@](#): > > Terri Schindler carried a cascade of white flowers on her wedding day as she drifted down the aisle of Our Lady of Good Counsel, the church she knew so well, and beamed at the first man she ever dated, the first man she ever kissed, the first man who told her he loved her. > > His name was Michael Schiavo. He was blond, tall, handsome. > > Before a priest and parents, family and friends, they promised to honor each other – in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. > > Until death do they part. > > They met in 1982 when Terri was a 19-year-old freshman at Bucks County Community College. > > On their first date, Terri’s brother stood on the front lawn outside their home in suburban Philadelphia and applauded as the pair left. > > On their second date, Terri told her best friend, ``I’m going to marry him.’’ > > Less than two years later, beneath the stained-glass windows of her childhood church, before her bridesmaids in straw hats and burgundy dresses, before her brother and sister and parents, Terri Schindler shone. > > This was all she ever wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/409 "2005-03-23T03:43:43Z")
I can’t say anything to **fessie** that other people haven’t already said. Except that polls by [Fox](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149433,00.html) and [ABC](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=599622&page=1) show an overwhelming majority of Americans think Terri should be allowed to die. Some polls are nearly 3 to 1 in favour of her right to die! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/410 "2005-03-23T04:19:16Z")
> [@Tinkertoy](#): > > Some of us have had children and been in this position. Mr. Toy and I made this decision, and would do it again. It was the right thing to do for our child. I just want to extend my deep condolences to you and to everyone in this thread and all of the other threads who have had to deal with this. You are all strong, admirable people. ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/411 "2005-03-23T05:26:48Z")
I just saw Patricia Heaton from “Everybody Loves Raymond” on Entertainment Tonight asking for support for Terri Schiavo. [http://et.tv.yahoo.com/celebrities/2005/03/22/pheatonschiavo/](http://et.tv.yahoo.com/celebrities/2005/03/22/pheatonschiavo/) > [@](#): > > “People on death row have more appeals than Terri,” Patricia told our MARK STEINES. “And she’s committed no crime except that she can’t speak.” This is ridiculous! I’m not sure I can roll my eyes enough. ---
**Author:** ![widdleytinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@widdleytinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdleytinks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/412 "2005-03-23T05:50:46Z")
Did anyone here see the neurologist (whose name escapes me at the moment) public statements that Terri: 1. Didn’t suffer a heart attack 2. Isn’t in a PVS 3. Retains 75% of her cerebral cortex ??? What’s the going rate for one’s professional integrity? regards, widdley ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/413 "2005-03-23T06:13:52Z")
> [@widdleytinks](#): > > Did anyone here see the neurologist (whose name escapes me at the moment) public statements that Terri: > > 1. Didn’t suffer a heart attack > 2. Isn’t in a PVS > 3. Retains 75% of her cerebral cortex > > ??? What’s the going rate for one’s professional integrity? > > regards, > widdley Any doctor that believes that should have their license yanked. Yes, I’m serious. ---
**Author:** ![widdleytinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@widdleytinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdleytinks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/414 "2005-03-23T06:21:21Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Any doctor that believes that should have their license yanked. Yes, I’m serious. I regret not being able to identify the doctor. I believe the interview, last evening, was on CNN. regards, widdley ---
**Author:** ![widdleytinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@widdleytinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdleytinks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/415 "2005-03-23T06:34:55Z")
His name is Dr. William Hammesfahr. This link to an old interview provides similiar comments: http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/hammesfahr\_interview\_startling\_revelations.html regards, widdley ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/416 "2005-03-23T07:08:31Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Anyone have any info on this nurse who filed an affadavit, testifying that Michael refused therapy, kept asking, “When is the bitch going to die?” and refused to let them place a towel in Terri’s fist so her nails wouldn’t dig into her palm? He also supposedly bragged about how rich he was going to be when “the bitch” finally died. > > Obviously, the judge discounted her affadavit, but I’m interested in knowing the backstory. I saw her on CNN today, and it was pretty bizarre. Her backstory is that she was fired for providing negligent care, and eight years later she surfaced with her accusations. Seeing as the courts have already determined Mr. Schiavo was _very_ demanding about the level of care that Terri received, to the point that caregivers were complaining that he demanded an _unreasonable_ level of care, I can’t imagine how anyone could take her [outrageous story](http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/CIyerAffidavit090203.htm) at face value. Here’s what the judge had to say about her claims: > [@](#): > > They are incredible to say the least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, medical professionals, the police, and believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. I wonder if her motivation was purely vindictive or if there’s an element of opportunism. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/417 "2005-03-23T07:40:27Z")
CNN says the panel on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals denied the request to reinsert the tube. ---
**Author:** ![widdleytinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@widdleytinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/widdleytinks)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/418 "2005-03-23T07:50:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > CNN says the panel on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals denied the request to reinsert the tube. So what, from a legal standpoint, happens next ? Have the Schindler’s run out of appeals? I did hear a prediction that the next and only avenue would be the Supreme Court which has rejected the case twice before. Any guesses? regards, widdley ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/419 "2005-03-23T10:31:43Z")
**Marley23** , I don’t know about Illinois, but New York State allows you to designate a health care agent (separate from the process of setting up a living will) that doesn’t have to be next of kin. That health care agent can be required to carry out the terms of a living will, or simply be entrusted with making medical decisions for you. In my own case, I’m single, and I’ve made it pretty clear to my family that I would not want to be kept alive under certain circumstances. My sister told me straight out that although she understood what I wanted, she wasn’t sure she could bring herself to pull the plug if that’s what was warranted. (I wouldn’t even dream of asking my parents to do this.) So my health care agent is one of my oldest friends, a nurse, who says she would willingly carry out my wishes. Maybe it would be possible for you to do something similar? **fessie,** sorry to be ganging up on you here but even from a religious standpoint, the person making decisions is rightfully Michael Schiavo and not Terry’s parents. This passage from Mark (10:6-9), a statement by Jesus to the Pharisees, should be familiar to you if you are any flavor of Christian: > [@](#): > > [sup]6[/sup]But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ [sup]7[/sup] **‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, [sup]8[/sup] and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.** [sup]9[/sup] What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." Bolding mine. I included verse 9 there for a reason. I have no idea how religious Michael Schiavo is himself these days (or how much he ever was), but who is to say that perhaps his actions in refusing to divorce Terry and surrender her to her parents aren’t colored at least a little by a belief in that verse? In any event, I think that the Schiavo family has been living under a powerful delusion, and will be in need of some serious psychiatric care once Terry dies (if she is allowed to, this time, as I sincerely hope is the case). ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/420 "2005-03-23T10:35:13Z")
> [@widdleytinks](#): > > So what, from a legal standpoint, happens next ? Have the Schindler’s run out of appeals? I did hear a prediction that the next and only avenue would be the Supreme Court which has rejected the case twice before. Any guesses? > > regards, > widdley The Schindlers have appealed to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, who has referred the case to the full panel. According to [CNN.com](http://CNN.com), the panel voted 2-1 not to order her feeding tube re-inserted. This means the Schindlers’ next step is to appeal to the Supreme Court, which has declined to hear it, as you’ve already noted. Unless the SCOTUS wishes to visit a particular issue now, it’s over. Robin [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=22)