# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/581 "2005-03-24T16:23:19Z")
Will anyone order an autopsy when this is over? I wonder how effective it would be if a medical examiner could show these right-to-lifers exactly what is left of Terri’s brain. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/582 "2005-03-24T16:34:54Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The quote above reads like parody. I didn’t expect it to actually be in the news story, but it is. In the same vein, check [this](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_96) out: > [@AP](#): > > Justices didn’t explain their decision, which was received by somber supporters outside the woman’s hospice with bowed heads and prayers for help from Gov. Jeb Bush. They’re praying to Jeb Bush? I didn’t know “Jeb” was short for “Jebus”! I know it’s just an unfortunate turn of phrase from a reporter in a hurry, but it made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/583 "2005-03-24T16:36:01Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > If you read his report, however, you’ll note that his diagnosis that Terri was responsive is based on an absurdly low standard for what counted as a “hit” (i.e. a response to a command). I.e., he would ask her about 80 times to close her eyes, and when she did it several minutes after he asked, this counted as a “hit” (a sign of responsiveness). By this standard, it would be easy to prove that she is not only conscious, but endowed with psychic powers of precognition and clairvoyance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/584 "2005-03-24T16:37:38Z")
**Dangerosa:** _Given the evidence I’ve seen, she isn’t there to communicate, but even if she were, there is no way to tell if “ARGGGGGGGGGGGH” means “let me live” or “please release me from this tortured existance” or “I want to see Patty Duke movies” or “retrain me to swallow, I really want some Rocky Road Ice Cream.”_ That’s the scary part. I tried to imagine if it were me lying there, to all appearances persistently vegetative, unable to move or communicate or even swallow my own saliva, but nonetheless somehow conscious… …for _fifteen years_… …_ **WITH NOTHING TO READ** _. I swear, I get the shakes just thinking about it. Being kept artificially alive as an unconscious vegetable is an appalling enough prospect, but at least I wouldn’t know anything about it. Being kept alive as an isolated, immobilized prisoner in a completely non-responsive body, for **decades** … I can’t imagine anything worse. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/585 "2005-03-24T16:38:59Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Another tape of Mr. Schindler interjecting questions in between her reflexive groans (uh, I mean, “conversing with her during a lucid moment,”) would appear, right? I now have Weird Al Yankovic’s song “Mr. Frump In The Iron Lung” stuck in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/586 "2005-03-24T16:51:46Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > Will anyone order an autopsy when this is over? I wonder how effective it would be if a medical examiner could show these right-to-lifers exactly what is left of Terri’s brain. Let us all pray and hope that never happens–look what some of them do with the abortion pictures someone gave them! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/587 "2005-03-24T16:59:14Z")
Judge Greer has rejected the latest petition for Florida to take custody of Terri Schiavo, the one based on Dr. Cheshire’s analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/588 "2005-03-24T16:59:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How about this, then - the heart attack that killed whatever was identifiably human was the result of bulimia. That’s a psychological issue related to self-image, something that isn’t the product solely of the self’s own imagination. Are the parents guilt-wracked over the way they raised her, over their own possible contribution to the psychic pain that led her to this condition? Is keeping this hunk of meat pumping their way of avoiding facing responsibility for their own role in causing this situation, whatever that conduct may have been? Is this endless legal case their way of trying to make up for it, even if she’ll never know? Well, I’m not a trained psychologist, and all I’ve seen are the videotapes – but I gather from the examples set from our Glorious Leaders that the former is not an obstacle and that the latter is quite sufficient. Yep, that’s my read on it, too. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/589 "2005-03-24T17:02:02Z")
I heard that the husband went to nursing school after the incident so he could take better care of her. Any merit to that? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/590 "2005-03-24T17:03:00Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Why are you torturing yourself Dio by watching Fox? He just wants to better understand the thought processes of people with no cerebral cortexes—watching Fox News is a pretty good way of doing that. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/591 "2005-03-24T17:03:46Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > It wasn’t bulimia! Michael tried to strangle her! > > Jeez, don’t you people listen to Randal Terry? > :rolleyes: > I understand Michael’s horror of making his personal life public, but either he or his representatives should make more press statements. I saw him on Larry King, and he seemed very calm, resigned, and saddened by this whole mess. As far as I can tell, he is the only principal in this sad affair who has behaved honorably. I fear I would have been teeing off on her parents worse than they have been teeing off on him. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/592 "2005-03-24T17:08:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If this has been brought up before, my apologies. > > Why are the voyeurs into this family’s tragedy interested only in the husband and his imagined motivations in wanting to let her go, and not into the parents and \*their \* motivations in trying to keep this imagined hope alive that she’ll recover somehow? One can speculate about that just as irresponsibly and uselessly. > > How about this, then - the heart attack that killed whatever was identifiably human was the result of bulimia. That’s a psychological issue related to self-image, something that isn’t the product solely of the self’s own imagination. Are the parents guilt-wracked over the way they raised her, over their own possible contribution to the psychic pain that led her to this condition? Is keeping this hunk of meat pumping their way of avoiding facing responsibility for their own role in causing this situation, whatever that conduct may have been? Is this endless legal case their way of trying to make up for it, even if she’ll never know? Is there any way to avoid concluding they should grow up and let her go? > > Be fair, now. There’s two parties involved in the case. Actually, I speculated something similar a few pages ago in response to **fessie**. Even now, 15 years after she died, it seems that she, through her husband, and her parents are in a fierce battle for control over food. ☹ Warning: heavy religious content in spoiler box: Dear God, people! On Sunday, Catholics, Episcopalians will celebrate the triumph of life over death and the hope of the resurrection! In order to rise again, one must die first; the joy of Easter morning is preceded by the grief of Good Friday. Let her die that she may know the hope of the resurrection. I’m certain God will take much better care of her than the poor delusional fools that pass for her parents will! CJ ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/593 "2005-03-24T17:10:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > \*\* > \ > …_ **WITH NOTHING TO READ** _. > I swear, I get the shakes just thinking about it. Being kept artificially alive as an unconscious vegetable is an appalling enough prospect, but at least I wouldn’t know anything about it. Being kept alive as an isolated, immobilized prisoner in a completely non-responsive body, for **decades** … I can’t imagine anything worse. :eek: That’s my idea of hell. Seriously. My claustrophobia kicks in just thinking about it and I want to hyperventilate. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/594 "2005-03-24T17:10:24Z")
Thank goodness the judges are smarter, and know the law better, than the politicians. The amount of ignorance is astounding. It’s not about whter it’s a coma or PVS, it’s not about whether she has a chance of recovering. It’s about the fact that a competent adult has the right to refuse medical treatment, and if they are unable to communicate we use a certain standard to determine what the best course of action would be. This is the standard: Knowing that person’s previous thoughts on the issue, if they were to wake up now, for 10 minutes, be fully aware, and then return to their previous state, what would they tell us to do. Terri said repeatedly “no machines for me”. So that’s the end of it, in withdrawing hydration and nutrition we would be fulfilling her own wishes, as we understand them to be. If anyone is interested, the NEJM has some great articles on the issue. They will be published in the April 21st edition, but are available online now to subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/595 "2005-03-24T17:14:03Z")
Too bad Dan Rather can’t dig up a copy of the living will, it would solve a lot of problems. ---
**Author:** ![velveeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/13edae/32.png) [@velveeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velveeta)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/596 "2005-03-24T17:17:00Z")
Saw a “Save Terri” protestor holding a sign that said, “What if it was you?” :dubious: Why, yes - that IS a compelling argument for letting the poor woman die. Thanks for clearing that up! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/597 "2005-03-24T17:20:07Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Dangerosa:** _Given the evidence I’ve seen, she isn’t there to communicate, but even if she were, there is no way to tell if “ARGGGGGGGGGGGH” means “let me live” or “please release me from this tortured existance” or “I want to see Patty Duke movies” or “retrain me to swallow, I really want some Rocky Road Ice Cream.”_ > > That’s the scary part. I tried to imagine if it were me lying there, to all appearances persistently vegetative, unable to move or communicate or even swallow my own saliva, but nonetheless somehow conscious… > > …for _fifteen years_… > …_ **WITH NOTHING TO READ** _. > I swear, I get the shakes just thinking about it. Being kept artificially alive as an unconscious vegetable is an appalling enough prospect, but at least I wouldn’t know anything about it. Being kept alive as an isolated, immobilized prisoner in a completely non-responsive body, for **decades** … I can’t imagine anything worse. Yep, that’s kind of where I come down on it as well. To feed the “hunk of meat” to keep it breathing - even against her own wishes - in order to give peace to her parents…well, not comfortable with it, don’t like the idea ethically, find it a waste of resources, but I can think of worse things. But if she is actually there (and I don’t believe she is)…oh my God. Please, please I hope I never have to live like that. (And yes, at least prop a cereal box in front of my face). (And I can imagine something worse - believing one of my children was locked inside that non-responsive body). ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/598 "2005-03-24T17:29:23Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I heard that the husband went to nursing school after the incident so he could take better care of her. > > Any merit to that? [I believe so](http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html). In fact, I think he works as a respiratory therapist now. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/599 "2005-03-24T17:36:57Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I heard that the husband went to nursing school after the incident so he could take better care of her. > > Any merit to that? Not only a registered nurse but a respiratory therapist. [This](http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html) has been linked about a billion times in these threads but it’s for a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/600 "2005-03-24T17:41:44Z")
As I watch the grandstanding “Christians” who keep trying to conspicuously get themselves arrested for bringing water to Terri I am bemused by the irony that if one of these dimwits actually tried to pour water down her throat she would probably choke to death and die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=31)