# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/661 "2005-03-25T04:27:29Z")
Just because lime jell-o is unresponsive, [it doesn’t mean there isn’t a Thetan in there.](http://www.xenu.net/archive/techniques/tomato.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/662 "2005-03-25T04:30:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s not legal for physicians to administer a lethal dose or to actively cause the death of a patient. We have the religious right to thank for the fact that we are forced to let people die slowly of natural causes rather than making the dying process quick and painless and dignified. I could be wrong, but wouldn’t this fall under palliative care? And isn’t palliative care an accepted and common practice in hospices and such? How much morphine is considered a lethal dose? How much significantly affects respiration? The morphine is intended to reduce suffering, but the by-product is hastening the patient’s demise by contributing to respiratory failure. A fine line, I admit. But preferable to a long, drawn out starvation/dehydration demise, I think. Not to belittle anyone’s comments (I appreciate them all), but I’d be interested in hearing a professional viewpoint. **Dio** , thanks for the information. I wasn’t aware she was already receiving morphine. On preview I see that **Doctor J** has provided exactly the insight I was hoping to get. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/663 "2005-03-25T04:44:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Geez…if the execution of an innocent person was a sign of the apocalypse, it would’ve come at least once a year for the last several tens of millennia. But this is an IMPORTANT innocent person. And no, I don’t think it’s the two witnesses. It was a horrible movie where, I think, Demi Moore gives birth to the Second Coming, and some retarded child was executed, and that caused the apocolypse or something. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/664 "2005-03-25T05:02:19Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I think that’s a bit harsh. They have for years successfully gained a stay every time they’ve filed a new action. Now that the system has decided enough is enough, they are understandably having a hard time coming to grips with that. > > I do believe that their belief in Mrs. Schiavo’s eventual recovery is delusional, if not pathological, but still… > > I only hope that they can come to grips with this in time to spend loving moments with the body that used to be their daughter, and bid her farewell, goodbye, and godspeed. Sorry. I guess that, to me, it seems rather obvious that from a legal standpoint, this appears to be over. Every court up to the supremes has told them to get stuffed, and somehow, I don’t see how persistance is going to change that. The only thing I can see happening is one of the Bush brothers doing something drastic, and I don’t think W is stupid enough to try that(and I don’t consider him a deep thinker, either). I’m not even sure he cares that much. Jeb, one the other hand, seems to have jumped into this feet first and if anyone is going to do something, I think it would be him. I understand their passion, but I would think there needs to be a realization that there comes a point where there’s nothing more to be done. They’ve lost. They don’t have to like it, but evetually they do have to accept it and make the best of what they have left. Personally, I wonder if any of the protestors will care in two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/665 "2005-03-25T05:30:45Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Personally, I wonder if any of the protestors will care in two weeks. Only if the media are filming them. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/666 "2005-03-25T06:12:10Z")
No, wait, they can still bring up… Uhm… Terri isn’t being allowed to wear her favorite shirt! Quick, bring that into court! Er, Terri once smiled at a puppy, showing that she loved life and would never, ever really want to be parted from it! Bring that to court! How about… She… Wasn’t fed what she wanted through the tube! That’s neglect! Quick, get the courts involved some more! :rolleyes: … Can we set up a betting pool as to the next illogical thing they’ll come up with that has to go to court immediately? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/667 "2005-03-25T06:36:01Z")
> [@ArrMatey!](#): > > Can we set up a betting pool as to the next illogical thing they’ll come up with that has to go to court immediately? Somewhere in one of these filings, they tried to claim that if Terri was allowed to die, her soul would go to hell. I have no idea what their reasoning was behind that or how they could have possibly expected a court to take that seriously but is shows the level of desperation that these appeals have reached. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/668 "2005-03-25T08:02:03Z")
> [@DtC](#): > > …if Terri was allowed to die, her soul would go to hell. Did you know that that was post 666? Apropos of even less than that, the following observation was made on LJ: > [@](#): > > But hey, let’s try looking at the bright side! > Now heterosexual married couples can get fucked over by the desires of one of the parents, regardless of any discussion between a married couple, just like same-sex couples! > See? It’s a bold new step in equality! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/669 "2005-03-25T08:23:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I have no idea what their reasoning was behind that… [Here ya go.](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/news/epaper/2005/03/22/m1a_schiavo_0322.html) > [@](#): > > [The Schindlers’ attorney, David] Gibbs raised issues about Terri Schiavo’s rights under the [1st Amendment.] > > He said she was being denied […] the right to practice her religion. Gibbs argued that the judge should issue a temporary restraining order to give courts time to further explore these issues. > > Letting Schiavo die would be a “mortal sin” in accordance with the teaching of the Catholic Church, Gibbs said, describing Schiavo as a devout Catholic who attended Catholic school, had a Catholic wedding and attended Sunday Mass regularly. > > “A court has ordered her to disobey her church and to put in jeopardy her immortal soul,” said Gibbs, adding that such an order is an unconstitutional infringement on Schiavo’s practice of religion. I can’t help you with regard to that whole “expecting the court to take it seriously” thing. Since it has already been established what Terri’s wishes were with regard to life support, it’s ludicrous to argue that the court is abridging her religious rights by ruling that they should be carried out. From a theological point of view, it seems to me that she has either disobeyed her church or she hasn’t. If her sincere religious belief would prevent her from refusing life support in this situation, then she’s clearly a passive actor in this drama, and her hypothetical soul is in the clear. If the court considered her religious freedom, _without overturning previous decisions_, then it would be obligated to prevent the religious values of a third party from being imposed on her. Suffering Christ, what a stupid (or at least transparently stalling) argument that was. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/670 "2005-03-25T09:08:04Z")
As a Catholic, she has been given the last rites. She didn’t recieve an actual wafer, but was given “spiritual communion”. AFAIK that is considered to absolve her of any and all sins. Unlikely she’d go to hell then, even by the teachings of the RCC. Unfortunately my source is [worldnetdaily.com](http://worldnetdaily.com), where the priest was complaining about not being allowed to give an actual wafer, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/671 "2005-03-25T09:41:57Z")
This is an interesting story: [Link](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/293372p-251049c.html) Not only are the Christian (?) protestors calling on Jeb Bush to violate the law and kidnap the poor woman, the judge has alerted sherrif’s deputies to be prepared to prevent such a kidnapping. It is a hell of a thing when the county sherrif’s forces have to be prepared to duke it out, or worse, with Florida state troopers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/672 "2005-03-25T09:58:17Z")
I find the calls of the lynch mob for Jeb to storm the hospice with guns a blazing to be fucking hilarious. Talk about creating a monster. Jeb is the one who lit these idiots up with his ridiculous grandstanding and manipulative, sanctimonious posturing on this case. He wanted these morons to think this was some sort of earth shaking crisis and now it’s going to bite him in the ass. Any of those fools who think Jeb is going to violate the court order and put himself in contempt are utterly deluded but they’re going to hold him responsible anyway. They’re going to see him as just sitting around doing nothing and he has only himself to blame. What a dumbass. You can’t whip up a mob like this and set yourself up as their leader and then let them down at their greatest moment of melodramatic expectation. This is poetic justice at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/673 "2005-03-25T10:07:39Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > As a Catholic, she has been given the last rites. > She didn’t recieve an actual wafer, but was given “spiritual communion”. > AFAIK that is considered to absolve her of any and all sins. > Unlikely she’d go to hell then, even by the teachings of the RCC. > > Unfortunately my source is [worldnetdaily.com](http://worldnetdaily.com), where the priest was complaining about not being allowed to give an actual wafer, but there you go. He would have prefferred it shoved into her via tube? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/674 "2005-03-25T11:55:00Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I find the calls of the lynch mob for Jeb to storm the hospice with guns a blazing to be fucking hilarious. Talk about creating a monster. Jeb is the one who lit these idiots up with his ridiculous grandstanding and manipulative, sanctimonious posturing on this case. He wanted these morons to think this was some sort of earth shaking crisis and now it’s going to bite him in the ass. Any of those fools who think Jeb is going to violate the court order and put himself in contempt are utterly deluded but they’re going to hold him responsible anyway. They’re going to see him as just sitting around doing nothing and he has only himself to blame. What a dumbass. You can’t whip up a mob like this and set yourself up as their leader and then let them down at their greatest moment of melodramatic expectation. This is poetic justice at its finest. There’s a story in the New York Times this morning that Jeb’s involvement has made them the heir apparent to the Republican party (and presumably, the country). You can bet he’ll be forgiven for not intervening if he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/675 "2005-03-25T12:07:21Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Unlikely she’d go to hell then, even by the teachings of the RCC. Ah, but she’s been \*in \* hell for almost fifteen years. Hopefully she will be allowed to get out of it in the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/676 "2005-03-25T12:31:06Z")
[Man arrested for attempting to steal gun, saying he wanted to “save Terri”](http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brain-damaged-woman-arrest,0,4268134,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines). Yikes. Right to life protests certainly bring out the nuts, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/677 "2005-03-25T12:41:31Z")
Latest news: Federal judge turns down parents’ request AGAIN. You know, how many times do you have to have the door slammed in your face before you realize you’re not welcome? Let it go, Bob and Mary. Quit wasting time on these pointless lawsuits and go sit with your daughter. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/678 "2005-03-25T12:42:23Z")
My thoughts exactly, **Mycroft**. AFAIK, it is not a sin for TS to refuse medical treatment. We have Catholic priests, Orthodox priests, you-name-the-religion-pastors/rabbi etc come to the hospital all the time to administer the sacrament (used to be called Last Rites)–no matter HOW the pt got to their death bed–refusal of treatment, do not rescusitate order, termination of life support order, post-arrest status–whatever, they come and do what they can to aid the living and the dying. WTH? Suicide is no longer considered a mortal sin, IMS. How do they KNOW she’s going to hell? If I were them and could know something like that–something that has puzzled and troubled mankind for 2 millenia–I’d package it and make millions (or at least get my own TV show!). This goes from crazy to sick and is now evil. Loved Jon Stewart last noc about all of this–cable news is awful-emotional (make that hysterical), pandering, inflammatory and incorrect factually. It is amazing to me how out of touch the media seems to be with majority of Amercians on this issue. It’s like their tone deaf and can see the jump in ratings as the hysteria builds. Off on vaca now. Bye all. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/679 "2005-03-25T12:54:07Z")
[Link to judge’s ruling.](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050325/D8920I2G0.html) I wonder, even though Terri cannot be fed, what other care are they giving her? Are they smoothing balm on her chapped lips? Is she getting painkillers? Are they still combing her hair and brushing her teeth? Is she still getting turned to avoid bedsores? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/680 "2005-03-25T13:06:07Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [Link to judge’s ruling.](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050325/D8920I2G0.html) > > I wonder, even though Terri cannot be fed, what other care are they giving her? Are they smoothing balm on her chapped lips? Is she getting painkillers? Are they still combing her hair and brushing her teeth? Is she still getting turned to avoid bedsores? Absolutely. She will still be suctioned to remove secretions, bathed and kept clean, turned etc. She will be kept warm and comfortable–it’s called COMFORT care. If she is getting morphine for any pain(?) she may be having that will continue, also. Most nurses I know “like” to give comfort care. Usually the family is present and we encourage them to participate–if desired. And after she dies, she is bathed and prepared for the funeral home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=35)