# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/921 "2005-03-27T22:56:04Z")
> [@widdleytinks](#): > > IIRC, the results were “flat” and showed no “cortical activity”. Would it be asking too much for you to supply a link for me? Any additional comments would be much appreciated. Y’know, it’s hard as hell to Google anything on this case with all those blogs out there. Anyway, all I could find was this: > [@](#): > > Dr. Ron Cranford, a neurologist at the University of Minnesota, assessed Schiavo’s brain function in 2001 as part of a court-ordered assessment. He was quoted in Florida Today as saying “[Schiavo] has no electrical activity in her cerebral cortex on an EEG (electroencephalogram), and a CT (computerized tomography) scan showed massive atrophy in that region.” [14] ([http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050318/NEWS01/503180350/1006](http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050318/NEWS01/503180350/1006)) > > Three Florida neurologists viewed 12 of Schiavo’s computed tomography scans on March 22. After viewing the scans, Dr. Leon Prockop (a professor and former chairman of neurology at the University of South Florida’s College of Medicine) was quoted by the Sun-Sentinel as saying that Schiavo’s scan exhibits the “most severe brain damage as I’ve ever seen.” Dr. Walter Bradley, the chairman of neurology at the University of Miami’s Miller School of Medicine, said that he “doubts there’s any activity going on in the higher levels of her brain.” [15] ([http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11213061.htm](http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11213061.htm)) > > In 2002, a trial was held to determine whether or not any new therapy treatments would help Schiavo restore any cognitive function. A new CAT scan was done, and showed severe cerebral atrophy. An EEG showed no measurable brain activity. on [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo). That page does contain links to the reports of both guardians ad litem she has had, which may have more detail. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/922 "2005-03-27T23:18:46Z")
I don’t know if everyone can get to the NEJM article–they may have this one available for free to the public. Anyway, it says: > [@](#): > > Computed tomographic scans of her brain eventually showed severe atrophy of > her cerebral hemispheres, and her electroencephalograms have been flat, indicating no functional activity of the cerebral cortex. It is an editorial, but even editorials in the NEJM have to be carefully cited and are heavily peer-reviewed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/923 "2005-03-27T23:42:00Z")
**DoctorJ** , while you’re here- I’m a touch confused. I’ve heard most people say that she can’t feel pain, but I’m also reading that she is on a morphine drip. Is she capable of feeling some pain, or is it just a precaution, or what? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/924 "2005-03-27T23:46:44Z")
It’s just standard of care. We don’t always use a morphine drip in patients who are not showing any signs of discomfort, but if there is any doubt, we do. I don’t think there is any medical doubt here, but with all the doubt sown by the opposition and the incredible denial of the family, it is worthwhile if it can ease their minds. (An awful lot of end-of-life care is for the benefit of the family, and there is really nothing wrong with that.) ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/925 "2005-03-28T00:06:19Z")
Sometimes it just takes a crotchety old guy to say what needs to be said… [Link](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050327/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559) > [@the article](#): > > At St. Michael the Archangel Catholic Church in Clearwater, Father Ted Costello scrupulously avoided mentioning the Schiavo case in Easter mass. Parishioner Bill Youmans said that was a good thing. > > “I don’t think that’s got anything to do with Easter,” the 76-year-old retiree from Michigan said. “I thought the church’s teaching is not to take extraordinary measures to perpetuate life. … I think all those people bleating in Schiavo’s front yard give Jesus a bad name.” You go, Bill Youmans! ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/926 "2005-03-28T01:54:06Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > My dad’s like that. He’s terrified of death. My mum’s said that she doens’t want him having any kind of a say if she winds up having to have someone make that decision for her! I’m sorry to hear about that. It seems like the ultimate in untenable positions to be in if something like this happened to someone so fearful of passing on. What happens when a family member wants every measure taken indefinitely, but the family knows there’s no hope at all? I can’t imagine having to make that decision. MS fortunately has the peace of mind knowing he’s trying to carry out Terri’s wishes. It goes without saying, I hope you never find yourself in that situation, **Silentgoldfish**. > [@Avenger](#): > > Try Free Republic, there are people over there making living wills to that effect How can people do that to their families? I don’t understand. It’s like saying, “If at all possible, I’d like to be the most excrutiatingly heart-wrenching burden to you before I die.” And, yes, I do think prolonged death is a burden to family members, emotionally and psychologically, if not financially. Everyone I know wants a) to die as quickly and painlessly as possible, and b) for their family not to have to suffer through it. Even the people I know who want TS kept alive, which I can’t even begin to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/927 "2005-03-28T02:00:42Z")
> [@FaerieBeth](#): > > Sometimes it just takes a crotchety old guy to say what needs to be said… > [Link](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050327/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559) > > You go, Bill Youmans! Interesting. This made me think that Christianity would have been in such a pickle if our advanced life-saving measures were available and insisted upon by those who followed Jesus. And, of course, if Mary had insisted that Jesus told her he wanted to die (what with his having to save our collective souls and all), they would have called her a whore and said she had some financial gain riding on his death. The media would have crucified HER! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/928 "2005-03-28T02:15:49Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > It’s just standard of care. We don’t always use a morphine drip in patients who are not showing any signs of discomfort, but if there is any doubt, we do. I don’t think there is any medical doubt here, but with all the doubt sown by the opposition and the incredible denial of the family, it is worthwhile if it can ease their minds. (An awful lot of end-of-life care is for the benefit of the family, and there is really nothing wrong with that.) Unless by some miracle she somehow comes back to life, with a completely functioning brain, and is then addicted to morphine. Seriously, I agree that there’s nothing wrong with trying to assure peace of mind for the family, though I’m not sure it really helps in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/929 "2005-03-28T02:52:34Z")
The one good thing that I can think of regarding this case is that I’m sure that hundreds of people have started the ball rolling on living wills, et al, of their own. I was discussing this case with my mother, who’s a nurse. I told her in no uncertain terms that I wouldn’t want to live in a PVS. Her response? “I had no intention of letting you.” :eek: Great…now part of me can’t help but think that my mother’s actively plotting to kill me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/930 "2005-03-28T02:56:41Z")
The Schindlers may be giving up, but [their whackjob supporters soldier on](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html): > [@](#): > > The Rev. Patrick Mahoney, a conservative Christian activist who has become a prominent figure in the protests over Schiavo’s case, said he will go to Washington to plead with congressional leaders and the Bush administration to enforce a subpoena issued March 18 by a House committee for the 41-year-old woman to appear before Congress. > > \ > > Mahoney said the fact that Schiavo has survived nearly 10 days since the removal of the tube that has supplied her with nutrition and water indicates that she wants to appear before the House Government Reform Committee. “AAAAAHHHHH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH to testify!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/931 "2005-03-28T03:00:17Z")
How many people said they didn’t care about Terri and the Schindlers and just wanted to make political noise? It’s nice of them to go and prove it, but it’s not a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/932 "2005-03-28T03:00:24Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The Schindlers may be giving up, but [their whackjob supporters soldier on](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html): “AAAAAHHHHH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH to testify!” :rolleyes: Hope you’ve got your deposit ready for your condo on the eastern shore of the Lake of Fire. I’ll be across the hall in 3G. That cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/933 "2005-03-28T03:04:57Z")
I nominate Mr. Michael Schiavo as MAN OF THE YEAR. He has stood firm against bribes, threats, ridicule and harassment in order to stand by the woman he loved (past-tense deliberate) in order to full fill a promise to her. This in spite of the damage it has done to his life… a life she would have wanted him to live and enjoy, I suspect. If the religious folks are right, her soul must be somewhere crying and shaking her head for the trials he has endured. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/934 "2005-03-28T03:05:54Z")
You know what? Time’s PERSON OF THE YEAR thing is a pretty long way off, but you can put Terri Schiavo on the short list of contenders. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/935 "2005-03-28T03:25:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I just heard an NPR reporter say that the Schindlers said today that they won’t be filing any more appeals. Praise be, if it’s true. I’m wondering if that was their decision…or their lawyers’. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/936 "2005-03-28T03:54:32Z")
Now Patrick Mahoney is going to Washington and pressuring Congress to make good on their subpoena. At this point, the Schindlers aren’t even involved. A stranger, someone who never met Terri, is going to ask the government to intervene in the relationships between the woman and her doctor, her husband, and her parents. > [@](#): > > Mahoney said the fact that Schiavo has survived nearly 10 days since the removal of the tube that has supplied her with nutrition and water indicates that she wants to appear before the House Government Reform Committee. So now it’s clear that AAAAAAAAHHH WAAHHHHH meant, “I want to appear before the House Government Reform Committee.” It was so obvious! On the bright side, something called the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade has also entered the fray. [http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html) It’s increasingly difficult to tell the difference between parody and reality. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/937 "2005-03-28T04:06:10Z")
I love this bit: > [@](#): > > [Mahoney] challenged House Speaker Dennis Hastert, an Illinois Republican, to show that he was not “just playing politics” with the subpoena. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/938 "2005-03-28T04:08:52Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > On the bright side, something called the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade has also entered the fray. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html) > > It’s increasingly difficult to tell the difference between parody and reality. I [googled this group](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&q=%22Revolutionary+Communist+Youth+Brigades%22), and got exactly two hits from the same site, which appear to be coincidental. I’ll bet this is a hoax by the “Make Terri Live No Matter What” to try to tar the oppostion with communist connections. Are there no lows to which they will not stoop? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/939 "2005-03-28T04:09:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m wondering if that was their decision…or their lawyers’. j Lawyers probably. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/940 "2005-03-28T04:22:20Z")
From [abcnews.com](http://abcnews.com): _"Outside the hospice where Schiavo is being cared for, five protesters were arrested, and about a half-dozen people in wheelchairs got out of them and lay in the driveway, shouting “We’re not dead yet!”_ :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=48)