# Let the poor woman die already! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029 "2005-03-17T19:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1101 "2005-03-30T06:33:55Z")
> [@pmwgreen](#): > > This is the most brilliant post since the Spanish Inquisition post 700-some posts back (possibly in a different thread?) [If you mean mine, thanks very much.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5975644&postcount=350) The appeal to hear the case was granted, so I guess they’ll do that later today. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1102 "2005-03-30T06:59:37Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > The Schindlers have [filed an emergency petition](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/30/schiavo/index.html) asking for the full court to hear yet another appeal. No mention in the story on what basis. I think the whole family has gone completely nuts. [And the fuckers granted it.](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20050330/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559) > [@](#): > > ATLANTA - A federal appeals court early Wednesday agreed to consider a petition by Terri Schiavo’s parents for a new hearing on whether to reconnect their severely brain-damaged daughter’s feeding tube. > > The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled without comment on Schiavo’s 12th day without nourishment. GODDAMMIT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1103 "2005-03-30T07:01:56Z")
They sure stuck to their word about no more appeals, eh? Oh well. Hard to believe this motion will go through when all the others didn’t, and it’s already Wednesday… ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1104 "2005-03-30T07:38:51Z")
Isn’t she dead yet??? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1105 "2005-03-30T07:40:59Z")
> [@if6was9](#): > > Isn’t she dead yet??? I suspect she’ll pass away about 2 minutes before the 11th Circuit gets off its ass and decides to do something about its apparent change of heart. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1106 "2005-03-30T08:46:01Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > And as somebody (don’t remember who - as **mhendo** said, this thread moves so quickly) said, the Republicans are ducking and pretending they said nothing. I see no reason to let them get away with it. > > And frankly, the fact that the Democrats are too spineless to stand up irritates the hell out of me too, and I’ve let my Representative and (one Democratic) Senator know that. Wouldn’t it be nice if this finally spurs the realignment of political parties that’s been due since about 1992? My senator is Barbara Boxer. She’s been leading the fight against the Republicans lately. I wish she had more people to lead though. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1107 "2005-03-30T10:10:05Z")
> [@Jeep's Phoenix](#): > > I just had a disturbing thought. > > A few years ago, I was made aware of the existance of various services for the parents of deceased babies and children that create little dolls and other things in memory of the child. I wonder if Terri’s parents will do something similar if they don’t get to bury her as they see fit. [Or maybe…](http://www.transtopia.org/plastination.html) Caution: grody. And in extremely bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1108 "2005-03-30T10:48:18Z")
One thing no one can claim with a straight face is that her parents haven’t had due process to make their claims. In fact, courts have been remarkably willing to bend over backwards for them. One of the major principles of jurisprudence is that you bring all your arguments to the table the FIRST and ONLY time. You don’t get to keep coming back each week with a new theory of the case or a new position. You’re supposed to air everything you can at once. But courts have been letting the Schindlers have countless do-overs and rehearings of the same issues with slightly altered briefs. It’s hard to paint that as dogmatically shutting them out. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1109 "2005-03-30T12:12:08Z")
From **dropzone** ’s [cite](http://www.earnedmedia.org/dcl0320.htm) (from post #1079): > [@](#): > > [March 20, 2005] As Terri Schiavo starves to death, it is time to alert more lawmakers to the truth: the wrong person is being ‘punished’ for Terri Schiavo’s current state," says Carole Lieberman, M.D. a Board Certified Psychiatrist on the Clinical Faculty of UCLA. Having interviewed Terri’s father on her radio show (“Dr. Carole’s Couch” on [voiceamerica.com](http://voiceamerica.com)), Dr. Lieberman uncovered the fact that Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, fits the profile of a wife-abuser – the same profile that fit O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson. > > \ > > [July 12, 2004] Terri’s personality fits that of a woman who would have been attracted (and attractive) to such a man. She was a loner as a child. In high school she was overweight and not popular with boys. She had low self-esteem. IANAPsychiatrist or Psychologist. In fact, I am a Civil Engineer. But I can say with as much professionalism as Dr. Carole Lieberman, that given Terri’s weight problem as a teenager (from the previously mentioned GAL report – she weighed 300 pounds at age 20 before meeting Michael), low self-esteem and subsequent bulimia, it is obvious that Bob and Mary Schindler are unfit parents, raised her improperly, must have abused her in some manner and should be prosecuted to that effect. Let’s call in the army to arrest them. :rolleyes: At least is appears that any activity regarding Lieberman’s assessment isn’t going anywhere yet. In truth, I think they started off well meaning, have become delusional, and surrounded themselves with self-serving nut-jobs and have gone off the deep end. I shudder to think how many lives have been negatively impacted by their actions over the past ten years. I doubt if they will ever be able to lead normal lives again and the spotlight has burned Michael and his new family badly as well. This case has managed to disenfranchise me from the Administration’s activities more than any of the rest of the crap that has been pulled over the past 5 years. I also truly feel sorry for all of the many good people living in the embarrassment called Florida. It seems as if Jeb is trying to take over from South Carolina as the place where strange happenings occur. (Again, no disrespect intended to the many good people of SC, but there was a lot of strange stuff that used to happen. Less now that Strom is gone.) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1110 "2005-03-30T12:56:02Z")
[More BS](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/) ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1111 "2005-03-30T13:30:08Z")
> [@from LoiseB's link](#): > > First lady Laura Bush also commented on the case Tuesday, saying the government was right to have intervened on behalf of Schiavo. > > “It is a life issue that really does require government to be involved,” Bush said aboard a plane bound for Afghanistan, **where she was to promote education and women’s rights.** \*Bolding mine So, she’s on her way to Afghanistan to promote women’s rights…unless they want to exercise their right to refuse life support (Since the courts have determined that was her wish). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1112 "2005-03-30T14:08:08Z")
I may have missed the theological explanations for this one, so maybe someone can help me out here. The Vatican has declared that removing a feeding tube from Terry Schiavo (or anyone in a vegetative state) is immoral. The Pope, who is being treated for Parkinson’s disease and associated medical problems and was just released from the hospital, is now receiving feedings via a nasogastric tube. This is the same Vatican which recently decried [the “religion” of health care](http://www.beliefnet.com/story/161/story_16139_1.html) in affluent societies: _"“While millions of people in the world struggle to survive hunger and disease, lacking even minimal health care, in rich countries the concept of health as well-being figures in creating unrealistic expectations about the possibility of medicine to respond to all needs and desires,” said the Rev. Maurizio Faggioni, a theologian and morality expert on the Vatican’s Pontifical Academy for Life. "_ So we should feel guilty about our “unrealistic expectations” for health while others do without, but it is OK to spend large sums prolonging the existence of people in persistent vegetative states and to give the Pope the best possible care in his final days? Could there be a large, steaming pile of hypocrisy here? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1113 "2005-03-30T14:22:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So we should feel guilty about our “unrealistic expectations” for health while others do without, but it is OK to spend large sums prolonging the existence of people in persistent vegetative states and to give the Pope the best possible care in his final days? > > Could there be a large, steaming pile of hypocrisy here? Kinda like how St.-in-Waiting Mother Teresa refused to provide medical or pain care for the “patients” in her “hospitals,” because “pain and suffering brings us closer to Jesus,” but when _she_ needed medical attention, she was flown to the best hospitals in Europe? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1114 "2005-03-30T14:24:25Z")
I don’t know, rumor has it that aged and ill but lingering popes have been _helped along_ in the past. Maybe that’s what they have in mind. 😛 Testy ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1115 "2005-03-30T14:27:39Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > [And the fuckers granted it.](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20050330/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559) GODDAMMIT!!! It’s not as bad as you think. The order was one sentence: > [@](#): > > “The Appellant’s emergency motion for leave to file out of time is granted.” All that does is allow the parents’ attorney to file another appeal. The appeal is requesting a rehearing (!!!) of certain procedural arguments. The court’s order doesn’t even grant the rehearing itself, just lets the Schindlers ask for it. > [@](#): > > In its order late Tuesday, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals didn’t say when it would decide whether to grant the hearing. ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1116 "2005-03-30T14:30:11Z")
According to [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/30/schiavo/index.html), the courts are allowing the Schindlers to file a new appeal, but haven’t agreed to hear it. > [@](#): > > However, the court – which has declined previous petitions three times in the case – has not agreed to hear it this time. > > It has only granted the Schindlers the right to file another petition. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1117 "2005-03-30T14:47:38Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s not as bad as you think. The order was one sentence: All that does is allow the parents’ attorney to file another appeal. The appeal is requesting a rehearing (!!!) of certain procedural arguments. The court’s order doesn’t even grant the rehearing itself, just lets the Schindlers ask for it. Which is the reason my post was limited to “More BS.” I don’t see it as anything but BS, but I don’t pretend to understand any of it. It would be far better for all concerned if the poor lady were to check out sometime today, preferably within the next few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1118 "2005-03-30T15:29:04Z")
Are appeals EVER heard on the case wholly anew, as the Schindlers are asking? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1119 "2005-03-30T16:08:10Z")
Wouldn’t it be a little late now to put her tube back in? Couldn’t it actually make her worse off? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029/1120 "2005-03-30T16:35:40Z")
From what I understand, they’d have to take her from the hospice to a hospital and fix her electrolyte balance or something. Don’t ask me how that works, or why they can’t do it in a hospice. It seems kind of amazing she’s still alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-the-poor-woman-die-already/295029.md?page=57)