# Let Theists agree before they have the nerve to criticize atheists! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785 "2007-05-12T00:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/301 "2007-05-16T19:03:26Z")
**tomndebb** Not to worry, the last use of the massive font cured me of my interest. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/302 "2007-05-16T20:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] **[Moderating]** (Listed alphabetically: ) **MrDibble** and **mswas** , knock it off. Complaining about each other and going on about who is or is not lying have nothing to do with this thread. Neither of you are persuading the peanut gallery of anything (except that you are each a bit obsessive regarding the other poster). If you have a straightforward thesis regarding the thread topic that you think needs to be expressed, do so without mentioning any previous posts, otherwise just knock it off or go play in the **Pit**. **[/Moderating]** [/QUOTE] Will do. Sorry, got a bit strident there. errm, can I still reply to the flood hijack bit, though? It is interesting in its own right. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/303 "2007-05-16T21:08:01Z")
Well, I will be happy to answer **Valteron’s** questions according to his guidelines\*. Yes No No God will speak to you. When you hear Him, you’ll believe, though I’d guess that you need to gain some maturity and wisdom before you’ll be able to hear him. - Technically **Valteron** demanded that I answer question four with yes or no, which struck me as somewhat odd, given that he’s asking for an explanation. I guess that’s one of those things that only makes sense to the superior logic of an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/304 "2007-05-16T22:33:04Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] though I’d guess that you need to gain some maturity and wisdom before you’ll be able to hear him. [/QUOTE] The next time you choose to express an opinion regarding how another poster may or may not communicate with God, be sure to do it in a way that is not a direct insult (otherwise God may decide that you are judging others in a way that you might not wish to be judged and I will certainly judge you to have broken the rules of this Forum). [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/305 "2007-05-16T23:35:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [sarcasm]As I non-stand here in front of my non-Apple computer, I eat my non-dinner, drink my non-beer and contemplate my non-religion.[/sarcasm] > Atheists are not playing a different version of the religion game, and we are not playing the same game with alternate rules-We have set down the dice, we have thrown away the pretty playing piece, and thrown the board away. We are not playing the religion game at all. We don’t have a church, we don’t have a religion, we don’t have Communism as some subset-we don’t even have a loose set of rules to live by. We don’t worship our gods, we don’t worship your gods, we don’t worship their gods, and we don’t worship gods set up by governments(that would be Communism, for those who haven’t gotten the point yet.) [QUOTE=mswas] It’s funny how even with your lack of conformity you always hide behind the group when I am addressing a specific person. That statement was directed **AT YOU** , not at all atheists. [/quote] Change “we” to “I” if it’ll make you feel better(or actually respond to any points I’ve made). Do any other atheists disagree with what I’ve posted above? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/306 "2007-05-16T23:40:13Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Do any other atheists disagree with what I’ve posted above? [/QUOTE] It makes perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/307 "2007-05-16T23:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] God will speak to you. When you hear Him, you’ll believe, though I’d guess that you need to gain some maturity and wisdom before you’ll be able to hear him. [/QUOTE] How do you know that the voice you hear is the voice of God? As a fallible human, might you not be deceived? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/308 "2007-05-16T23:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] How do you know that the voice you hear is the voice of God? As a fallible human, might you not be deceived? [/QUOTE] That’s always bothered me. How do you know it’s not the Devil ? Or Cthulhu ? Or the Men in Black who’ve implanted a tranceiver in your head ? Or food poisoning, for that matter ? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/309 "2007-05-16T23:54:31Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Do any other atheists disagree with what I’ve posted above? [/QUOTE] Sounds good to me. Atheism only exists as a rejection of theism. Imagine a world where there is no conception of God. In such a world it would be impossible to be an atheist, just as it would have been impossible to be “anti-American” in 1491. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/310 "2007-05-16T23:59:06Z")
Here’s a puzzle for you: 1. If Atheism is really a type of religion, and 2. All religions basically agree on what they believe, then 3. Do atheists believe in God? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/311 "2007-05-17T00:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] God will speak to you. When you hear Him, you’ll believe, though I’d guess that you need to gain some maturity and wisdom before you’ll be able to hear him. [/QUOTE] This from the person who challenged people to refute Aquinas’ proofs, and then abandoned the thread when someone did so. Yes, it’s \*us \* that refuse to listen. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/312 "2007-05-17T00:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Do any other atheists disagree with what I’ve posted above? [/QUOTE] Good Og, no. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/313 "2007-05-17T00:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] How do you know that the voice you hear is the voice of God? As a fallible human, might you not be deceived? [/QUOTE] Might be and occasionally are, being fallible humans. Still to many the effort to discern god’s voice from the voice of our own ego, fear, and pride is still worthwhile. Seems odd don’t it? The hope is that practice makes perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/314 "2007-05-17T01:06:03Z")
You’re ducking the question. How do you ever know it’s your god’s voice? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/315 "2007-05-17T01:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] Might be and occasionally are, being fallible humans. Still to many the effort to discern god’s voice from the voice of our own ego, fear, and pride is still worthwhile. Seems odd don’t it? [/QUOTE] Not really, since it allows people to listen to “the voice of our own ego, fear, and pride”, define THAT as the voice of God, and act on our worst impulses while feeling morally superior. It’s not odd at all. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/316 "2007-05-17T01:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] This from the person who challenged people to refute Aquinas’ proofs, and then abandoned the thread when someone did so. Yes, it’s \*us \* that refuse to listen. Of course. [/QUOTE] If you can provide a link to the post in which this happened, I will acknowledge that I refused to listen on that occasion. Otherwise I will refuse to acknowledge that you’re telling the truth. > [@](#): > > How do you know that the voice you hear is the voice of God? As a fallible human, might you not be deceived? Believe me, when God calls, there’s no need for caller ID. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/317 "2007-05-17T01:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Not really, since it allows people to listen to “the voice of our own ego, fear, and pride”, define THAT as the voice of God, and act on our worst impulses while feeling morally superior. It’s not odd at all. [/QUOTE] No doubt that does happen, fortunately it’s not the only alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/318 "2007-05-17T01:21:35Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] If you can provide a link to the post in which this happened, I will acknowledge that I refused to listen on that occasion. Otherwise I will refuse to acknowledge that you’re telling the truth. [/QUOTE] Perfectly reasonable. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=406908&page=1&pp=50&highlight=aquinas+proofs) is the thread in question. [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8226805&postcount=47) is the post in which you issue your challenge (handily, in the first paragraph). [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8228434&postcount=57) the post refuting the proofs in question. As you’ll note, you did not return to post in that thread after this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/319 "2007-05-17T01:21:55Z")
[QUOTE=ITR champion] Believe me, when God calls, there’s no need for caller ID. [/QUOTE] Believe me, when you hear God call, it’s actually Satan. Show me why my claim is inferior to yours. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785/320 "2007-05-17T01:33:15Z")
Take your pick. 1. I know what I experience. An anonymous stranger on the internet does not. You claiming to know more about my spiritual experiences than I do is as absurd as you claiming to know more about my dinner than I do. 2. Occam’s razor. God being God is a simpler explanation than something else being disguised as God, just as my neighbor Maria being Maria is a simpler explanation than someone else being disguised as Maria. 3. Morals. God calls us to do what is good, Satan to do what is evil. Hence a call to goodness cannot come from Satan. 4. Basic common sense. 5. Satan was banned from the board years ago and I haven’t heard from him since. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-theists-agree-before-they-have-the-nerve-to-criticize-atheists/403785.md?page=17)