# Let us sing the praises of Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181 "2005-03-25T09:28:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/41 "2005-03-26T17:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Obviously this has to be pure speculation, but I’d bet there are people who are only decent because of the carrot of heaven and the stick of hell, and no other non-supernatural reason would prevent them from doing bad things. \*I am not moved, my God, to love you, By the Heaven you have promised me. Nor does Hell, so feared, move me, To keep me from offending you… It is your love that moves me, and in such a way That even though there were no Heaven, I would love you, And even though there were no Hell, I would fear you. You do not have to give me anything so that I love you, For even if I didn’t hope for what I hope, As I love you now, so would I love you.\* -St John of the Cross **Polycarp** , that was a way of putting it,/ Not very satisfactory/ leaving one still with the intolerable wrestle with words and meanings… 😃 Without Christianity, I think I’d be sorry not to have the writings of (to randomly pick a bunch of favourites) G. K. Chesterton, C. S. Lewis, George MacDonald, Annie Dillard, Kathleen Norris, Thomas Merton, Gerard Manley Hopkins, John Donne, Flannery O’Connor, Evelyn Waugh, Madeleine L’Engle, St. Benedict, St. Augustine, T. S. Eliot, Michael O’Brien, Dante. They might have found other things to write about, but I think a world without the _Divine Comedy_ and the _Four Quartets_ would be less interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/42 "2005-03-26T19:43:03Z")
“Hear, hear!” for that list, **Lissla**! This thread also provides me an opportunity to thank someone on this board – I forget who – for introducing me to the [Sojourners](http://www.sojo.net/). Through them, I can find ways to communicate with Christian friends and colleagues in a language they understand and can relate to. I believe that they represent the mission of Jesus in the modern world moreso than the fire and brimstone groups that get all the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/43 "2005-03-26T21:20:47Z")
one word: Shiksas ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/44 "2005-03-27T01:00:01Z")
I spent the vast majority of my time in Rome exploring churches. I pretty much went into every single one I came across (and there are a lot of churches in Rome!) because I could not get enough of the beauty, the peace, the atmosphere, the art, and the reverence. I had read that people often had conversion experiences when visiting Italy, and I believe it. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/45 "2005-03-27T02:00:14Z")
> [@Lissla Lissar](#): > > \*They might have found other things to write about, but I think a world without the _Divine Comedy_ and the _Four Quartets_ would be less interesting. I agree. If I were filthy rich, I’d really love to finance and produce a faithful to the original source animated motion picture of “Dante’s Inferno”. (I can’t imagine reasonably doing it live action.) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/46 "2005-03-27T02:38:58Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I agree. If I were filthy rich, I’d really love to finance and produce a faithful to the original source animated motion picture of “Dante’s Inferno”. (I can’t imagine reasonably doing it live action.) Pixar would be the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/47 "2005-03-27T02:48:34Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Pixar would be the way to go. Wouldn’t this be a little to controversial for them? Note I mentioned "faithful to the original source animated motion picture of “Dante’s Inferno”. I’m not a Christian. However, I consider Dante a poetic genius. A good animated version of the “Inferno” would be more fascinating than most science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/48 "2005-03-27T04:32:25Z")
Wow. It would be _awesome_. I have no idea how you could translate it successfully to the screen, though. It would take a genius filmmaker to get a more-than-strictly-literal, properly layered film. [slight hijack] I keep waiting for Hollywood to discover the _rest_ of the Inklings, and then watch them try to figure out how to do Charles Williams.[/end hijack] Thank you, **Sample**. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/49 "2005-03-27T06:11:07Z")
As a wishy-washy Zen-Atheist, “Love Thy Enemy” and “Judge Not” are favorites of mine. I also appreciate that the Catholic Church and the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits) provided a satisfactory education and subsidised my tuition, grades K-12. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/50 "2005-03-27T10:26:03Z")
I wrote this in my LiveJournal, and I was going to start a new thread until I found this one, which is the exact same idea and even some of the same OP. 🙂 Hey, baby! I always seem to kind-of line up and sort out my religious feelings around (and just before) Easter – that’s probably because my church has such excellent, evocative Maundy Thursday/Good Friday services. The Holy Week vibe is a strong one with me. Besides, spring is a good season for figuring things out. This year, I got caught up a lot in the logical side of Christianity. I’ve run into a lot of skeptical atheists/agnostics who recognize me as intelligent(ish) and reasonable(ish) and ask me to explain the non-Fred Phelps side of our religion. I’ve run into a _lot_ of people who, thanks to Neo-Pharisees of his ilk, have written off Christianity as a hateful, judgemental, self-righteous cult. And for a while, I started to buy into that mentality, and sort of distance myself from Christianity, and say, “well, I’m spiritual but not really religious,” and if anyone asked, say, “I was raised Presbyterian, but…well, you know.” But I believe that there’s a very simple, very good message at the heart of it. God so loved the world that he sent his only son to suffer and die to save us. Jesus Christ so loved the world that he suffered and died on the cross to save us. Love, love, love, love your neighbor as yourself, love God with all your heart and soul, it’s all about love. Everything else is minutiae. It’s there, and some of it helps you be a better person and some of it is just confusing, but it’s so unimportant, relative to The Big Message: Love. The other thing I realized (maybe “internalized” would be a better word, it’s nothing I didn’t already know with my head) is that the Bible is an anthology. It’s called Scripture, yes, but nowhere in Christian dogma do we have a text which is the _actual_ word of God. At least, I’m pretty sure the Ten Commandments are a transcription, although my Old Testament theology is shakier than my New Testament. The point being that not every book in the Bible is created equal, and context is important. Like, a lot of the Old Testament genealogies/travelogues are more of a cultural history of the Jews than they are anything else. The whole Bible is not a Big Book Of What To Do, it’s stories and letters that are sometimes only tangentally related, that are interesting to read as a look at early Judaism and early Christianity finding footholds in culture and growing as young religions, but the important thing to remember is that it’s not all prescriptive. So what I’m feeling about Christianity now and religion in general: God’s message, first and foremost, is love. He loves us, and he wants us to love him, and love each other. God is all about the big hippie commune. God is also all about not just loving passively, but doing something with it – like voting to pass legislation that raises the minimum wage, and lobbying to change unjust laws, and giving money to genuine charities. God wants you to be the hand that helps your neighbor up. And more personally, God is happy when you’re happy. Remember on _Arrested Development_ last week, when George Michael’s creepy fundamentalist girlfriend Ann was getting so excited about God’s love filling her at a certain pivotal moment in their relationship? God is _all over_ that. God LOVES it when you’re happy. God goes NUTS over you rocking that solo in jazz combo, and jumping into a river in August with all your clothes on, and geeking out over the _Return of the King_ midnight opening, and reading “Romeo and Juliet” aloud to yourself because Queen Mab is too delicious to let lie on the page, and trying on a new dress that fits perfectly, and jumping up and down in the rain, and yes, really good sex. In fact, dare I say it? _Especially_ really good sex. God is CRAZY about that action. Also, he has a good sense of humor, but to me, that’s so obvious as to almost be not worth mentioning. And then there’s music, because I just can’t listen to Boccherini’s “La Musica Notturna” and _not_ believe in a higher power that inspired something so thoroughly sublime. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/51 "2005-03-27T10:51:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Christianity introduced the idea – very radical in its time – that every human soul is equally precious, and worth saving. That idea was essential to the abolitionist movements of the 18th and 19th Centuries. As much as I hestitate to wander into GD, as there is _always_ someone who wants to take violent issue with anything, I have to say that this is one of my favorite unsung points. “Every religion is equally valid. Oh, and I hate it when people value others less.” And as I understand it, slavery was a different kind of issue when Paul was writing. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/52 "2005-03-27T14:16:36Z")
[voice of teenage boy] Catholic school girls in plaid skirts![/voice of teenage boy] ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/53 "2005-03-27T14:55:23Z")
Another wonderful aspect of Christianity is the seemingless endless promise of mercy and forgiveness. God is a God of love; God is love. When we stumble, He wants us to stand up and He will help us stand up. Christians believe that any sin (with certain exceptions, I suppose) a Christian commits will be forgiven by God. Forgiveness is not up to God’s whim or desire: it’s basically a guarantee. Because Christ shed His blood for us, He will forgive all sins, as He so abundantly did while He was alive. In this not only does Christianity recognize the fallen nature of humanity but also provides a way that we may nevermore be ensnared by it. Whatever our shortcoming may be, the mercy and forgiveness of God is abundant enough to cover anything. (Of course, Christianity also emphasizes the call to change, to put away sin and evil, to modify our behavior, to change our expectations and goals and desires - all to mold ourselves better to Christ. Christianity is a religion of immense spiritual, internal, and personal effort.) The beauty of Christian liturgy also is a wonder to behold. There’s a story involving this aspect that I love and, notwithstanding that it will no doubt bore some to tears, here it is: The Baptism of the Rus. Prince Vladimir of the Rus wanted to know what the true religion was. So, he sent emissaries to observe different religious communities and report back to him. They visited the Muslims in Bulgaria, the Catholics in Germany, and the Orthodox in Constantinople. When his emissaries reached Constantinople, they saw the Divine Liturgy at Hagia Sophia. They were immensely impressed. They reported back to the Prince that during the ceremony, they did not know whether they were on earth or in heaven; whereupon, Prince Vladimir accepted Orthodox Christianity. Despite being one of the most prominent religions in the world, Christians patiently endure persecution, ridiculing of their faith and of themselves, and blasphemy against Whom they hold sacred. They take very seriously the charge by Christ to preach the Good News to all, often putting themselves in dangerous situations to do so. Christianity has gifted to the world rich examples, philosophies, and practices of mysticism. WRS - He is Risen! Alleluia! ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/54 "2005-03-28T00:16:04Z")
Point 1 of this post: Christianity is extremely simple and without complex or expensive ritual items for the people. (Churches and all are another matter.) The theory of it is simple. The practice of it is, in theory, simple. Point 2 of this post: Certain interpretations of the Christian message demonstrate a God who is unbelievably loving. If it is true that we humans have abandoned, betrayed, and turned out backs to God in our sins, then it boggles the mind that, nevertheless, He would become human, suffer for our sins, and offer us eternal life. If we are creatures who do not deserve God’s love or attention, this abundant love and attention and desire is remarkable. To play off a traditional Jewish song sung at the Passover _seder_, _Dayenu_ (“Enough for Us”): That God became human, would have been enough for us. That God became human and delivered immortal teachings, would have been enough for us. That God delivered immortal teachings and healed the sick, would have been enough for us. Thet God healed the sick and forgave sinners, would have been enough for us. That God forgave sinners and suffered for our sins, would have been enough for us. That God suffered for our sins and atoned for our sins, would have been enough for us. That God atoned for our sins and died on the cross, would have been enough for us. That God died on the cross and descended to the dead, would have been enough for us. That God descended to the dead and rose again on the third day, would have been enough for us. That God rose again on the third day and conquered death, would have been enough for us. That God conquered death and ascended to Heaven to join our Father, would have been enough for us. That God ascended to Heaven to join our Father and promised to send His Spirit, would have been enough for us. That God promised to send His Spirit, and promised to return, would have been enough for us. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181/55 "2005-03-28T13:21:21Z")
I am genetically Jewish, and an atheist philosophically, so I am not the best person to quote on the goods of christianity. Nonetheless, I am playing to put down a post on" [Let us speak of the evils of Christianity](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308787)" in a few hours, after I have revised it, so I figured I would put down some good things about the religion first. > [@Barbarian](#): > > [voice of teenage boy] Catholic school girls in plaid skirts![/voice of teenage boy] Oh, and: Micah 146"They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." Matthew 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Gah! I just can’t do it! Not without listing the following: 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. So basically, christianity was either a hostile to outsiders, warlike religion with some peaceful statements tacked on, or the exact opposite, depending on what you believe that jesus actually said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-us-sing-the-praises-of-christianity/296181.md?page=2)