# Let your boy be a girl for Halloween? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957 "2004-10-07T01:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/61 "2004-10-10T10:58:45Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > So this means folks are happy with my choice of attire?The schoolgirl outfit suits me beautifully,even if the heels hurt a bit and the skirt’s a bit too short… > Well it beats boring old t-shirt and jeans > 😛 Well, a short skirt is fine for a school girl outfit, but none of them wear heels. Have you not been watching your anime? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/62 "2004-10-10T12:16:40Z")
Good reading. I pulled out the Halloween box just the other day, and with a wry smile asked Farmman if he remembered _this_ … a translucent pink witch hat our 3 year-old chose as the cornerstone of his costume last year. Now, we’re both socially liberal…to the point where we assumed this sort of thing would be a non-issue, so our squirminess about the prospect of our son dressing up as Glenda the Good was actually more distressing than any choices he made at the time. But we chided ourselves, made jokes (not that there’s anything _wrong_ with it), and swallowed what we thought was conformist’s hangover as we let him assemble a glam ensemble like only a preschooler can. Long story short – he switched costumes mid-holiday and ended up being Simba for the Big Night. At the risk of sounding dramatic, the Pink Hat represents the end of his innocent, genderless babyhood for me. It was at this time that he dropped pink from his list of favorite colors and started talking about ‘girl things’ with just a hint of scorn and derision, and if I could identify the putz who planted the seed, I’d strangle the SOB. In reality, there probably wasn’t one person who made him question his choice to dress up as a pink witch, but rather a total mood punctuated by a few pointed, “why would you want to dress up as a girl?” type questions. Kids in general are more perceptive than we assume, and this kid in particular thrives on pleasing the adults around him. So, while I’m not proud to admit it, I was glad to hear him declare his devotion to Superman this season, not only because we already have the costume, but also because I won’t have to face my own uncharacteristic uneasiness about my boy dressing up as a girl. On another note: I’m always distressed by the attitude that it’s okay for a boy to dress as a woman as long as it is in caricature. Huge hair, big boobs, tight skirts, garish lipstick and heels, now that’s funny. A teenager dressed as a cheerleader is acceptable and likely to get lots of yucks. But the vaguely femme, which is a more accurate illusion of womanhood is creepy when portrayed by a guy. Am I the only woman who feels insulted by this? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/63 "2004-10-10T14:40:02Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Yes, gender roles are mostly arbitrary. So is the rule that we drive on the right side of the road in the US. Yeah, but that rule is there for a reason and I’ve never heard about anybody wanting to drive on the left side simply because. > [@](#): > > I’m genuinely surprised at some of the reactions in this thread. For starters, the “how could you _of all people_ think this way?” When I said that, it wasn’t because you’re gay, but because I know many of your opinions and thoughts from other threads. To my mind, this doesn’t fit. > [@](#): > > This isn’t about sexuality; children have no sexuality. Untrue, but also irrelevant. > [@](#): > > Everyone who’s so appalled that a man could get so “worked up” about his son wanting to dress up as a woman: am I to assume that you all had a completely genderless upbringing? Of course not, and I don’t even understand the relevance. Can I only object to child beatings if I wasn’t beaten myself? > [@](#): > > And that you dress your own child only in neutral beige coveralls, giving them a full complement of gender-neutral toys? I’ll certainly try, when that day comes. Pass on the beige, though. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/64 "2004-10-10T14:55:30Z")
As someone who has struggled to “fit in” (in other ways, not gender-related), I think **SolGrundy** is absolutely correct. Children need to understand what the norms are, and need to be supported when their behavior varies from what is typical for things that are important to them. To leave out normative information is to make it more difficult for them to get along in society - life is full of “games”, and being sheltered from the rules doesn’t make it easier to play. It’s merely isolationist. And confusing. Which then diverts the child’s energy into figuring out what’s going on, when that energy could be better spent developing who they are. Alternatively, you have an isolated adult who can’t get along with people, whose talents are meaningless because they don’t know how to share them. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/65 "2004-10-10T15:59:52Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > As someone who has struggled to “fit in” (in other ways, not gender-related), I think **SolGrundy** is absolutely correct. > > Children need to understand what the norms are, and need to be supported when their behavior varies from what is typical for things that are important to them. To leave out normative information is to make it more difficult for them to get along in society - life is full of “games”, and being sheltered from the rules doesn’t make it easier to play. It’s merely isolationist. And confusing. Which then diverts the child’s energy into figuring out what’s going on, when that energy could be better spent developing who they are. Alternatively, you have an isolated adult who can’t get along with people, whose talents are meaningless because they don’t know how to share them. As a parent I don’t understand WHY lettting your small male child dress as a female for ONE supervised, out-having-fun night of the year is going to make them an awkward unsocialized adult! I think this whole thread has been one long whinge( I’m so f8cked up) and sneaky misogyny hiding as pop pysychology. Frankly I’m thoroughly disgusted! Oh and fessie, I have ALWAYS struggled to be me in bland cultural soup and consequently have NEVER fit in anywhere. I will encourage my child to be the person he wants to be. Now theres my personal whinge! ---
**Author:** ![ranovercat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb8c5e/32.png) [@ranovercat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ranovercat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/66 "2004-10-10T19:33:39Z")
I think every male should go as a female for halloween atleast once. Maybe we’d see the absurdness in American stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/67 "2004-10-10T20:28:01Z")
I don’t think I said it was wrong to encourage individuality (quite the opposite!), nor do I think Sol said that. Merely that it’s imperative that children have the tools they need to survive. Just because a little boy has been exposed to the typical male endeavors doesn’t mean he has to be limited by them. But it would probably help him not feel like a freak among other little boys if he has at least a nodding acquaintance with the pasttimes that are their obsessions. I also think it’s a matter of picking your fights. I haven’t been a parent for long, but it’s already clear that raising these two will take all the energy I’ve got & then some. I’m not advocating raising a fuss at the least little thing. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/68 "2006-05-09T07:10:07Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > But these gender divisions are not natural. “girl stuff” and “boy stuff” didn’t spring forth from the sea foam. You (and the society around you) are creating them almost constantly through the way you treat your children. People that bend or break these norms have such a hard time _precisely because_ much of childhood is spent hammering gender norms into kids’ heads. They arn’t given time to figure out much about anything before they are ushered into the glittery pink Barbie or camflaged GI Joe sections of the toy store. And little boys most certainly do notice their fathers getting nervous and even hostile when gender roles are broken- don’t you think this perpetuates itself? They arn’t getting a choice about the “great gender divide” so why are you so worked up about how their Halloween costumes play in to the “great gender shift”? > > I only say this because there are and always have been some people that have do fall outside of the gender norms. Some societies have created a place for these people. Some societies beat them up and kill them. We belong to the latter. By maintaining the status quo, you are maintaining a society where a quarter of transgendered people kill themselves, and it’s not unusual for them to die at the hands of others. The current gender norms are not neutral. They are deadly. > > And for many transgendered kids (not that kids that dress up as the opposite sex for Halloween are all transgendered- just that a certain small portion are bound to be) Halloween has special signfigance. For many it is the only time they can be themselves in public without the risk of bodily harm. Transgendered people generally figure out that something is going on with their gender at a very young age- around five or so. The memories of having this once yearly event destroyed by disapproval or disallowment can cause them mental anguish for the rest of their lives and may cause discord (even if in secret) with their parents forever. That was a beautiful post, sven. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957/69 "2006-05-09T13:21:13Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That was a beautiful post, sven. I agree with you, but since this thread is over a year and a half old, I think I’ll just lock it off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-boy-be-a-girl-for-halloween/267957.md?page=3)