# Let your fellow Dopers find an anime for you! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506 "2011-02-24T21:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/41 "2011-02-27T18:23:29Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > “Bambi eyes” is one of the most annoying elements, but it is far from the most objectionable. The crap frame rates, the cheats like the constant strobing between two frames, the abuse of walk cycles, etc. > > “Anime” is Japanese for “mediocre animation”. Let’s face it, good animation is expensive. The last good western cartoon I saw was Justice League Unlimited. I’m currently watching four very good anime series, one of which I think may be one of the greatest TV series ever made.. I think that should tell you something right there. Sometimes its not all about the graphics. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/42 "2011-02-27T19:57:02Z")
I think the best anime series for people who don’t like anime is probably Ghost in the Shell. ([Here](http://org.ntnu.no/anime/img/serie/upload/20091118230207_158_101_ghost_in_the_shell_stand_alone_complex_2nd_gig.jpg) is a sample of the art from the TV series.) Ghost in the Shell is gritty, realistic, near-future cyberpunk kind of stuff. It is extremely, extremely complex, both theme- and story-wise. I’ve watched both the movie and the two TV series multiple times, and I still don’t think I understand everything that was going on. Really, really great, though. I can’t think of an American series except for _The Wire_ that comes close in terms of complexity. Also, I second (third?) the work of Satoshi Kon if you want realistic art and story, especially Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue, and Paprika. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/43 "2011-02-27T19:59:33Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Let’s face it, good animation is expensive. The last good western cartoon I saw was Justice League Unlimited. I’m currently watching four very good anime series, one of which I think may be one of the greatest TV series ever made.. I think that should tell you something right there. Sometimes its not all about the graphics. Which one is the best series ever? Share. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/44 "2011-02-27T20:03:01Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > Let’s face it, good animation is expensive. Hand drawn animation is expensive and labor intensive, agreed. But the stylistic faults of anime have not one…damn…thing…to do with cost. Insane mouth shapes? Bad character design? Stiff, inhuman motion? Crappy kinematics? Those are not cost issues, those are style issues. Those are bad animation issues. And of course, the worst, most obnoxious, so awful that I cannot understand why I didn’t mention it earlier, is: **Post-recording the freaking dialog!** An entire nation that has not figured out how to do the stuff that Disney figured out with _Steamboat Willie_? They can’t use a dope sheet? They animate the lips flapping and record the voices later! Even Myazaki! I watched it happen on the behind the scenes documentary on _Spirited Away_! There is no cost savings from _doing it wrong_. > [@](#): > > The last good western cartoon I saw was Justice League Unlimited. The last good western cartoon I saw was _Tangled_, though I see the anime influence on the character design. The rest of the animation was beautiful, so I’m willing to overlook the over-large eyes. _The Illusionist_ was OK, but the charm of Jaque Tati is lost on me. _The Triplets of Belleville_ was brilliant though. > [@](#): > > I’m currently watching four very good anime series, one of which I think may be one of the greatest TV series ever made.. I think that should tell you something right there. Sometimes its not all about the graphics. If it is animation, it is. Otherwise, you’re talking about radio with pictures. I’m not a hand-drawn purist. I’ll take my animation anyway I can get it. CG, clay, stop motion, it doesn’t matter. But it all has to possess the all-important [“illusion of life”](http://www.amazon.com/ILLUSION-LIFE-DISNEY-ANIMATION/dp/0786860707). And you fail to produce it if your mouth movements have only the most vague relationship to what is being said, if the characters move stiffly and you have frame rates too slow to convey motion well. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/45 "2011-02-27T21:52:24Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The last good western cartoon I saw was _Tangled_, though I see the anime influence on the character design. The rest of the animation was beautiful, so I’m willing to overlook the over-large eyes. Yeah, that’s been a [problem](http://frederatorblogs.com/refrederator/files/2008/04/song-a-day.jpg) for [awhile. 😉 (Or should I say…:eek: ?) 'Course, there’s always [URL=“[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAeK-UAuyUQ&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAeK-UAuyUQ&feature=related)”]REALLY old school anime,]([http://wondersinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/red-hot-1.jpg?w=500&h=375](http://wondersinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/red-hot-1.jpg?w=500&h=375)) which was much more closely inspired by western forms. (Features cute forest animals…and what appears to be [General Percival](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Percival)) ---
**Author:** ![Zoinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zoinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoinks)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/46 "2011-02-27T21:58:16Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I suspect that complaining about anime is like trying to judge Kabiki theater by Western standards. Kabuki is actually a lot like baroque theatre. I remember reading a Japanese theatre critic’s rapturous review of an Italian troupe that did baroque, he said, “Either they’re doing Kabuki or we’ve been doing baroque.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zoinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoinks)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/47 "2011-02-27T22:16:01Z")
Sorry for the doublepost but I found [corroboration](http://www.performanceinc.ca/magazine/pdf/performance%204.pdf): > [@](#): > > In a few years, Opera Atelier hopes to expand its annual season by inviting other > companies to perform in Toronto — and not just other opera companies. “On the open- > ing night of our Figaro in Japan,” says Pynkoski, “we met some very famous directors of > kabuki theatre, who came up to us at the reception and said, **‘Either you are doing kabuki, > or we are doing baroque theatre.’** So we went to see what they were doing — and we > would love to present that sort of thing in Toronto.” But apparently the theatre troupe was Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/48 "2011-02-28T06:08:15Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Yeah, that’s been a [problem](http://frederatorblogs.com/refrederator/files/2008/04/song-a-day.jpg) for [url=[http://wondersinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/red-hot-1.jpg?w=500&h=375](http://wondersinthedark.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/red-hot-1.jpg?w=500&h=375)]awhile. 😉 (Or should I say…:eek: ?) Right, you picked two classic animation examples of bad character design. Betty Boop was originally a one-off character in another Fleischer cartoon who became wildly popular and they were stuck with a piss-poor design. Mickey Mouse is pretty much the same thing, with ears that are apparently two roaming spheres. Walt’s artistic limitations have damned generations of animators to work their asses off trying to deal with his bad design. Red is another example, they had to put a realistic women in a world where the Wolf’s eyes would bug out to five pairs of eyes. In that context, she wasn’t so extreme. You could also have picked a Chuck Jones era Bugs Bunny, but his insistence on big eyes is not connected to my reasons for thinking Chuck Jones was the most over-praised of the Warner Brothers directors, well behind Friz Freleng and Robert McKimson. He did some classics, but I think Chuck got more than his share of attention just because he lived so long. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/49 "2011-03-01T01:18:31Z")
> [@Pyper](#): > > Which one is the best series ever? Share. One Piece. I won’t lie to you, there are long sections were they tend to rely on characture rather than story. It also has a lot of over the top humor, but when it’s good, it may be one of the best TV shows ever. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/50 "2011-03-01T03:14:20Z")
> [@Gil-Martin](#): > > I may research this [_Monster_]. It sounds like something that would attract me if it were a book or horror movie. Brackets mine, for context. I highly recommend it; the story really is fantastic. The other nice thing about this show that I forgot to mention is that every character is uniquely drawn. Sometimes in anime you’ll have characters that are basically the same general “bishie” (pretty people) design, just with different hair and eye color (_Bleach_ has a problem with this). _Monster_’s character designs, on the other hand, are all distinct, and their looks more closely reflect real people (even if the main character, Kenzou Tenma, doesn’t look remotely Japanese). There are pretty people, certainly, but for the most part they’re realistically pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/51 "2011-03-01T10:57:22Z")
Normally I prefer shonen (boys’) anime, but I can make a couple of recommendations for shoujo (girls’ anime) or josei (anime aimed at adult women, usually focusing on relationship drama, may or may not contain sex.) Note that these are mostly in the stereotypical “big-eyed” design, so if that’s not your cup of tea, hopefully you can get past the character design and concentrate on the story. A lot of these started out as manga, so in some cases I would also recommend reading the manga if you like the story. - **Nana** - about two young women, both named Nana (which means “seven” in Japanese) who become roommates, and their friendship as they try to survive jobs and relationships in Tokyo. - **Peach Girl** - If you like high school “frenemies” - style drama, check this one out. Momo is a high school girl with a bad reputation because of her naturally dark skin - everyone thinks she’s a fake-tanning-addicted ganguro (a type of mid-2000s fashion victim with a dark “tan,” dyed blond hair, lots of flashy clothes and costume jewelry, and a bad attitude.) Her only “friend,” Sae, takes advantage of her and pounces on anything Momo shows the slightest interest in, whether it’s a purse or a cute guy. So what happens when Momo finds a guy she really likes, and decides to fake Sae out? Drama! **Antique Bakery** - Warning - not for homophobes! A wealthy man decides to quit the rat race and start a bakery. He hires a friend whose parents once worked for his family (and who is apparently mildly developmentally disabled as far as I can tell,) a gay pastry chef who has been fired from every job he’s ever had for sleeping with his bosses or coworkers, and a young retired boxer who suffered a career-ending injury and turned to baking instead. To be honest, I’ve only read the manga, so I don’t know how closely the anime sticks to that story, but it begins with basically the same premise. **Honey and Clover** - the relationship woes of a group of art students, including a young sculptor who is rather small for her age and very cute. A bit twee for some, but give it a chance. **Lovely Complex** - I just started watching this one, but the first few episodes are just so charming I fell in love with it. It’s about two Osaka high school students, a girl who is unusually tall, and a boy who is short for his age. They’re friends, but spend half the time arguing and insulting each other’s height. Of course, everyone who knows them thinks they would make a great couple, and each privately agrees, but they’re too busy arguing to admit it. Around episode 5 or so, a potential love interest appears for the boy, but “she” turns out to be a boy who claims to be a “girl trapped in a boy’s body” and who presents as female as a result. The people in my anime watching group, mostly males, laughed uproariously at the revelation, mostly out of discomfort, it seemed to me. I felt rather bad for the character, actually; even though it was played for laughs to some extent, she was portrayed somewhat sympathetically, at least in the episodes I’ve seen up to. **Kimi ni Todoke** - haven’t seen it, but I plan to. A shy, quiet teenager bears a resemblance to the Sadako character in _Ringu_ (aka _The Ring_) and the kids at her school avoid her because they find her creepy. One boy doesn’t care about her reputation and reaches out to her, giving her the courage to slowly come out of her shell. I’ve noticed all the anime I’ve chosen have a theme of people who don’t quite fit in, trying to find their place in the world. For some reason this theme appeals to me,and is a recurring theme in many of the stories I like. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506/52 "2011-07-08T13:42:49Z")
> [@Lucky\_13](#): > > - **Nana** - about two young women, both named Nana (which means “seven” in Japanese) who become roommates, and their friendship as they try to survive jobs and relationships in Tokyo. I’m late to the show, as usual. Nana is also a live action movie, which loosely parallels the anime, but is, in my opinion, much, much better. There’s a fantastic song in the movie called Endless Story that is played through a particularly gut-wrenching scene. There was a sequel to the movie called Nana2, but it wasn’t as good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/let-your-fellow-dopers-find-an-anime-for-you/572506.md?page=2)