# Lethal force justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104 "2015-10-29T17:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/61 "2015-10-30T15:57:50Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Well then perhaps _you_ should try making it out how it was, because you really haven’t done that yet. > > It is possible for the situation you describe to be menacing with additional unstated facts (many of which would be nebulous and hard to describe), but the story that you actually put into words contains no threat. Seriously, go back and try to read your OP from the point of view of _someone who wasn’t there_: you’re standing in a parking lot in work clothes, a stranger comes up to you holding a piece of lumber and asks what you’re doing, and your reaction is to (A) say nothing, and (B) contemplate hurting or killing him. Frankly, that sounds like a crazy person. The detail that he came out of a house is relevant and a step in the right direction (not that it really proves anything by itself), but it took you until post #43 to offer it. What about the situation actually made you feel threatened? > Also, you may as well let us know what this agenda you mention is, if that’s what the thread is about. I think I described the situation clearly. The guy wasn’t out there framing houses. He wasn’t carrying a piece of lumber from one saw horse to another like you are making it sound. Video evidence would back me up on that point in court. I didn’t see any cameras, but we all know they are everywhere. If you think I sound crazy for being ready to defend myself, then so be it. I’ve got 43 years of experience that tells me your wrong. You can’t always rely on talking your way out of things. Sometimes it’s better to act first. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/62 "2015-10-30T16:06:07Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I wasn’t near the guy, I was standing alone in the middle of a parking lot with at most 5 cars in it. He came out of a house and walked up to me, 2 by 4 in hand. We didn’t pass each other, he approached me directly, 2 by 4 in hand. How could he have possibly of spotted a concealed blackjack from over 200 feet away? I damn sure know he could see my work vest from at least 200 feet away, that is the point of it. If the guy was 200 feet away, then why did you feel threatened by the 2x4 - did you think he was going to throw it that far? That certainly doesn’t fit with what you said in the OP, most people would consider ‘walked up to me’ to be much closer than 200 feet. If he did get close to you like your original story said, then he was much closer than 200 feet by the time the confrontation happened, so spotting it is not exactly far-fetched, and the 200 feet is a red herring. > [@](#): > > This wasn’t just some guy carrying lumber for a project, casually saying “hey what’s going on?” What project were you carrying a blackjack for, exactly? You seem to be arguing that another person carrying a possible weapon should be justification for you to use lethal force against him if you feel nervous, but if that was the case then your carrying definitely-a-weapon would also be justification for that person to use lethal force against you. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/63 "2015-10-30T16:08:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I will give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that he could tell by the stranger’s tone, demeanor, and body language–in addition to the literal words that came from his mouth–that he was approached in a hostile and intentionally intimidating manner. “What are you doing here?” doesn’t strike me as a casual, non-threatening question given the circumstances described. What is unreasonable is expecting a calm, respectful response to that question from someone who is alone, just minding their business as they stand waiting in an area they are full entitled to stand in. > > That said, there are more options that were available to the OP than fighting or fleeing. The OP may have a good reason to suspect the guy had ill-intentions towards him, but he didn’t know the extent of these ill-intentions. > > Let’s assume the OP’s ride didn’t show up when it did. So the guy is walking over and is demanding to know what he was doing there. At this point, maybe stepping back a few feet to increase distance between you and him would make sense. Not only does this gesture show you’re not there for a fight, but it allows you really to assess his intentions. An aggressive person will keep moving towards you. And if he does that, then its time to speak: “Watch it, honey. Whatever you need to say, you can say it from there.” > > If he keeps his distance at this point, great. If not, then cue your club coming out. Don’t raise it unless his is raised, but be ready to connect. > > Of course, if a fight occurs and he loses, it will come down to his word against yours. And chances are high a jury won’t be on your side. But regardless, if I thought this is how the whole thing went down, I wouldn’t fault you for killing him. Yes, this is what I was saying, and I thought I was pretty clear. My point is that I think that as soon as he came to me with that demeanor, with a weapon in hand, the time for talk was already over. I think I would have been justified taking action right then and not go through the other things you mention, like backing off and trying to talk to him. He brought the threat directly to me. If he was that worried about me, he should have called the cops from the safety of the house he was in. He had no right to come out and confront me, but I think I had every right to defend myself once he did. That’s the way I see it at least. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/64 "2015-10-30T16:15:45Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I described the situation clearly. The guy wasn’t out there framing houses. He wasn’t carrying a piece of lumber from one saw horse to another like you are making it sound. Video evidence would back me up on that point in court. I didn’t see any cameras, but we all know they are everywhere. I have at no point claimed that he was carrying a piece of lumber from one saw horse to another, or that he was framing houses. However, holding a piece of lumber is not generally illegal, and doesn’t normally rise to ‘brandishing’ unless he actually, well, brandishes it. Him carrying a piece of lumber in case of trouble is generally about as legal and justifiable as you carrying a blackjack in case of trouble, in a lot of states more so due to concealed weapons being illegal or restricted. Further, if it did come to a trial, you should expect that one of his buddies would claim that he had some other reason for ‘happening’ to have a 2x4 on him since that’s what usually happens. > [@](#): > > If you think I sound crazy for being ready to defend myself, then so be it. I’ve got 43 years of experience that tells me your wrong. I think you sound crazy for wanting to kill a guy (use deadly force) for doing the same thing that you’re doing (carrying an impact weapon) and expecting it to be justified in the eyes of the law, and for expecting people to say ‘sure using deadly force against a guy holding a 2x4 without attempting to walk away or defuse the situation is fine’. There is a big difference between ‘defend yourself’ and ‘kill a guy in the street who hasn’t made any overt threat’. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/65 "2015-10-30T16:18:04Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > If the guy was 200 feet away, then why did you feel threatened by the 2x4 - did you think he was going to throw it that far? That certainly doesn’t fit with what you said in the OP, most people would consider ‘walked up to me’ to be much closer than 200 feet. If he did get close to you like your original story said, then he was much closer than 200 feet by the time the confrontation happened, so spotting it is not exactly far-fetched, and the 200 feet is a red herring. > > What project were you carrying a blackjack for, exactly? You seem to be arguing that another person carrying a possible weapon should be justification for you to use lethal force against him if you feel nervous, but if that was the case then your carrying definitely-a-weapon would also be justification for that person to use lethal force against you. I already said I carry the blackjack for my own personal protection in some of the neighborhoods I have to work in. It is totally concealed, because I’m working and not trying to threaten people. I wasn’t brandishing it, and there is no outline to see. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/66 "2015-10-30T16:20:49Z")
The thing is, even if was “threatening”, he was not an immediate threat. You have a right to be nervous, you have a right to take a defensive posture, you have the right to think or say that he is an asshole. But you don’t have a right to use force, lethal or otherwise, against someone who has not taken a hostile action against you. Once he raises to swing, or says " I’m gonna brain you" or rushes you, that’s time to use force, assuming retreating safely was not an option. But you’re basically advocating a preemptive strike, and that’s not how this works, legally, morally or ethically. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/67 "2015-10-30T16:36:36Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I would have been justified taking action right then and not go through the other things you mention, like backing off and trying to talk to him. You’re wrong on that one. I’ve served on three criminal juries in my life, including an attempted murder. The situation you’ve described would get you convicted of assault every time. Even if you think you were legally covered, why wouldn’t you, as a matter of your own best interest, try to de-escalate the situation? If you had attacked the guy, the worst outcome would be for you to be convicted of murder. But even the _best_ outcome would be for you to have your life fucked up by defending criminal charges for months or years. Why not just answer the question while keeping a safe distance? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/68 "2015-10-30T16:38:29Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > If the guy was 200 feet away, then why did you feel threatened by the 2x4 - did you think he was going to throw it that far? That certainly doesn’t fit with what you said in the OP, most people would consider ‘walked up to me’ to be much closer than 200 feet. If he did get close to you like your original story said, then he was much closer than 200 feet by the time the confrontation happened, so spotting it is not exactly far-fetched, and the 200 feet is a red herring. > > What project were you carrying a blackjack for, exactly? You seem to be arguing that another person carrying a possible weapon should be justification for you to use lethal force against him if you feel nervous, but if that was the case then your carrying definitely-a-weapon would also be justification for that person to use lethal force against you. No project since I already said I carry the blackjack for my own personal protection in some of the neighborhoods I have to work in. It is totally concealed, because I’m working and not trying to threaten people. I wasn’t brandishing it, and there is no outline to see. As I said the guy walked right up to me from at least 200 ft away, right up to easy striking distance. This is why I mentioned both of our skin colors in my OP. You all just seem to assume that since he was white, he must of just had the 2 by 4 because he was framing houses or something and I’m just a crazy black guy that typically over reacts. The reality was I was the hard working person just trying to live my life, and he was the thug. But now all of the sudden I have to bow down to him. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/69 "2015-10-30T16:50:49Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > You’re wrong on that one. I’ve served on three criminal juries in my life, including an attempted murder. The situation you’ve described would get you convicted of assault every time. > > Even if you think you were legally covered, why wouldn’t you, as a matter of your own best interest, try to de-escalate the situation? If you had attacked the guy, the worst outcome would be for you to be convicted of murder. But even the _best_ outcome would be for you to have your life fucked up by defending criminal charges for months or years. Why not just answer the question while keeping a safe distance? I don’t understand this de-escalating thing that people keep bringing up. I was already de-escalated, standing in the middle of a near empty parking lot by my self. Bright neon green vest and light lantern on at dusk. What more could I do once he approached me. Jump in the river, dig a hole and try to bury my self? Flap my arms and try to fly away like a bird? I done here, I got the answer I was expecting. Only white people are allowed to defend themselves . ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/70 "2015-10-30T16:54:03Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > You all just seem to assume that since he was white, he must of just had the 2 by 4 because he was framing houses or something and I’m just a crazy black guy that typically over reacts. No, that’s not what anybody here is assuming. What **IS** being said, however, is that the onus is on you to show that the 2x4 was a weapon and not just a piece of scrap lumber. YOU bear the legal burden of explaining why a reasonable person would believe it is a threat. It is quite possible that the 2x4 was a weapon and you were under direct and immediate threat. That’s a story YOU need to tell, though, and not just wait for other people to fill in the gaps. If you tell your story on the witness stand as well as you’ve done here, you’d be lucky not to end up on death row. Your initial version was basically “the guy’s a different race and had a piece of wood, so I was justified in killing him.” Only gradually have more details leaked, and it’s been like pulling teeth to get them out of you. “as soon as he came to me with that demeanor”–okay, WHAT demeanor? What was his body language, his tone of voice, his inflection, his mannerisms? Be specific and detailed. What exactly and precisely do you mean by “that demeanor”? The jury needs to be able to see him through your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/71 "2015-10-30T17:00:49Z")
I disagree, the 2 by 4 is enough in and of itself as it is actually a well know weapon. You could maybe get away with saying it’s just a piece of lumber 30 years ago, but not now. Especially when it’s cut so it can be easily swung. That’s why it started being use in the first place. You all are just wrong on that fact. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/72 "2015-10-30T17:10:29Z")
What exactly was your work? Construction of some sort? When you say it’s a public parking lot, what does that mean? Is it a business that makes its money parking cars, is it a parking lot attached to some other business or building that is open (or visible) to the public, or what? Is the parking lot the place where you were actually working, or had you been working nearby and only moved to the lot to be picked up? How long had you been standing there? Were some similarly dressed coworkers in sight at the time, or other pedestrians, or was the lot totally abandoned save for you and 2x4? The thing is, from your descriptions is sounds much more plausible that this guy (unreasonably) felt that you were a threat than that he saw saw you out there and decided to hit you with a board for kicks. This ‘why should I have to answer him, he has no authority over me’ thing is a pretty weak justification for whatever was going through your head. Suppose you’re in your house asleep at 2 AM and some strange young man starts knocking on your door and looking through your front window. Are you justified in attacking him with deadly force without warning because of the threat he poses, or do you perhaps some obligation to ascertain if he’s a lost drunk guy or a stranded motorist first? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/73 "2015-10-30T17:11:55Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I disagree, the 2 by 4 is enough in and of itself as it is actually a well know weapon. You could maybe get away with saying it’s just a piece of lumber 30 years ago, but not now. Epically when it’s cut so it can be easily handled. > > You all are just wrong on that fact. I have a piece of 2x4 here in my office as I’m typing this. It’s the scrap left over from the board used to raise my desk to a comfortable working height, and it’s been sitting in the corner for at least four years. (I’m lazy.) Dozens and dozens of people have seen it; very few have even remarked upon it, and nobody has mistaken it for a weapon. It’s a piece of scrap lumber. No, EMPHATICALLY NO, a 2x4 in and of itself is not a weapon that justifies lethal force. Combined with other information, such as the manner and tone, how he handled it, the whole course of events, and so forth, it might BECOME an imminent threat. If it has become such a threat, tell us how. Tell us exactly what makes this piece of lumber so dangerous, while the piece in my office isn’t. Show us. Make us see the scene as it unfolded in your eyes. Don’t just assume we see it as you saw it; paint the picture for us. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/74 "2015-10-30T17:25:47Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > What more could I do once he approached me. You could have talked to him, and answered his question. That would have immediately de-escalated and kept everyone safe. “I’m here, working for X Corporation, we’re working on that XYZ over there.” Then you can ask him: “Why do you ask?” Then he could explain why he thought walking over carrying a 2x4 was the best thing for him to do. > [@](#): > > I done here, I got the answer I was expecting. Only white people are allowed to defend themselves . For the record, I would convict anyone in the situation you described. You being black and him being white would have been a small point in your favor, in my mind, but you’d still get convicted. I listened to an episode of _This American Life_ recently where they were talking about the differences in kids who grew up in tough neighborhoods and kids who didn’t. As I recall, the example they used was of a kid walking down the sidewalk carrying a bag of candy and another kid comes up and takes it. The kid in the upscale neighborhood would be expected to go to an adult and let them take care of it. The kid in the tough neighborhood would immediately react himself and try to do something about it. They were trying to use this to teach adults in schools how to handle kids in tough neighborhoods. Teachers probably have the expectation of the first kind of reaction, while their students expect themselves to have the second. split, I don’t know what your background was, but it reminds me of this. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/75 "2015-10-30T17:32:55Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > What exactly was your work? Construction of some sort? > > When you say it’s a public parking lot, what does that mean? Is it a business that makes its money parking cars, is it a parking lot attached to some other business or building that is open (or visible) to the public, or what? > > Is the parking lot the place where you were actually working, or had you been working nearby and only moved to the lot to be picked up? How long had you been standing there? Were some similarly dressed coworkers in sight at the time, or other pedestrians, or was the lot totally abandoned save for you and 2x4? > The thing is, from your descriptions is sounds much more plausible that this guy (unreasonably) felt that you were a threat than that he saw saw you out there and decided to hit you with a board for kicks. This ‘why should I have to answer him, he has no authority over me’ thing is a pretty weak justification for whatever was going through your head. > > Suppose you’re in your house asleep at 2 AM and some strange young man starts knocking on your door and looking through your front window. Are you justified in attacking him with deadly force without warning because of the threat he poses, or do you perhaps some obligation to ascertain if he’s a lost drunk guy or a stranded motorist first? I work for a railroad, and we run though some rough areas, not that what I do matters. My railroad and train was clearly visible about 500 feet behind the parking lot. My company logos on my vest clearly identified I was associated with that railroad. The guy lived in the area and had to know that sometimes the trains brake down and people walk them and try to fix the problem. Do the math The parking lot is public, as in owned by the city. Anything more? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/76 "2015-10-30T17:44:01Z")
The conclusion is I’m the threat. What a joke. Unbelievable ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/77 "2015-10-30T17:52:07Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The conclusion is I’m the threat. If you’re ready to bust somebody’s head open simply for walking up to you and asking you what you’re doing there (while carrying a 2x4), then yeah, you’re the threat. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/78 "2015-10-30T18:03:19Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The conclusion is I’m the threat. What a joke. Unbelievable The conclusion, based on how you yourself have described the encounter, is that the other guy was doing something not well defined, described, or understood, and you want to kill him for it. The picture I am seeing _from what you have described_ is of some guy who views you as suspicious (maybe he’s new in the area, maybe your logos aren’t as visible as you think, maybe he’s a racist asshole, maybe something else). He thinks there’s something off about you, he comes over to investigate, and you refuse to answer his question and want to bash his head in. That’s the picture I saw from your first post. You’ve shared a few more details since, but I still don’t grasp what about his demeanor was so threatening. A 2x4 to me, when not brandished or held in a particularly threatening manner, is not automatically a dangerous weapon. Obviously I’m not you and have not had your particular experiences, but if you want me to see this guy as a threat in the same way you did, you need to explain WHY “a random guy walks up to me with a 2 by 4 in his hands and asks me what I’m doing” is an immediate and deadly threat in your world, 'cause he’s not in mine. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/79 "2015-10-30T18:06:18Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > … The guy lived in the area and had to know that sometimes the trains brake down and people walk them and try to fix the problem. Do the math See, that’s all relevant information. You asked people to agree with you that you were in immediate physical danger, but omitted any details that might suggest this guy was aggressive (instead of defensive or nervous). > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The conclusion is I’m the threat. What a joke. Unbelievable No, that’s not what I said. Stop. Look, if you’re trying to prove a racial double standard you’re in the wrong place. It’s a liberal board, very few people here are sympathetic to a comprehensive “stand your ground” type philosophy. Go find some conservative message board and get mad at them. Better yet post it to two different conservative boards, one where with the ethnicities reversed, and tell us what they say. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104/80 "2015-10-30T18:07:10Z")
split, here’s how I would expect that situation to play out had you acted reasonably: You, standing in a parking lot, wearing your company gear, waiting for a ride. A white guy comes out of a house carrying a 2x4, and asks you what you’re doing there. You: “I work for X Corporation, I’ve been working on that XYZ over there. Why do you ask?” Him: “There have been some violent crimes in the area recently, and you standing here by yourself made me suspicious.” You: “See this railroad logo on my vest with my name? I’ve been working on that train track there and I’m waiting on a ride. Why are you carrying a 2x4? I don’t like that and I’m going to keep my distance.” Him: “I didn’t know who you may have been, so I brought it in case I needed to protect myself.” You: “I’m not a threat to you. I’m equipped to defend myself as well, so let’s keep our distance, OK? Again, I’ve been working on the train tracks and am waiting on a ride, who should be here any minute. If you feel concerned, you’re welcome to call the police. Have a good evening.” That would be it. You seem to have the mindset that you were legally allowed to be there, and that you legally didn’t have to answer his question, so that’s that. OK, but he legally had the right to walk up to you and ask you a question while holding a 2x4. So far, nothing illegal had happened. But it’s not enough to continually tiptoe up to the line separating what’s legal from what’s not. You need to protect yourself by de-escalating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-force-justified/736104.md?page=5)