# Lethal injection - always IV? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 16, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023 "2010-09-16T22:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/21 "2010-09-19T14:39:18Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > > [@bizerta](#): > > > > A guillotine would certainly clinch the deal. > > I’m pretty much against the death penalty. But there are so many possibilities for killing somebody - so why can’t the convicted choose what’s best for them? They still don’t have to commit suicide, which may be against their beliefs/religion, but it may help to keep their dignity. Some jurisdictions do allow the condemned to choose, typically between lethal injection and electrocution; a few states allow the choice of hanging as well. Utah allows firing squads for inmates sentenced prior to 2004, and executed Ronnie Lee Gardner by that method last June. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/22 "2010-09-19T14:49:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > > > The vast majority of people qualified to place stuff in a human carotid artery are licensed; Physicians, Nurse Anesthetists, etc. These folks hold licenses prohibit using such skills to kill someone intentionally. > > Typically, what kind of medical instruction (if any) have the prison employees that perform lethal injection executions undergone? Or is it all on the job training? I once had a conversation with the warden at the Texas prison unit where executions are performed; he told me that executions are performed by a privately contracted outside party whose identities are kept secret and involves no medical personnel (i.e. doctors and nurses). In most states they’re phlebotimists and/or EMTs. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/23 "2010-09-19T15:45:26Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Typically, what kind of medical instruction (if any) have the prison employees that perform lethal injection executions undergone? Or is it all on the job training? > > In most states they’re phlebotimists and/or EMTs. That surprises me, as that would contradict the [oath taken by EMTs](http://www.naemt.org/about_us/emtoath.aspx) and [Code of Ethics of the American Society for Clinical Laboratory Science](http://www.ascls.org/about/ethics.asp), which governs phlebotomists. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/24 "2010-09-19T18:39:06Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Some jurisdictions do allow the condemned to choose, typically between lethal injection and electrocution; a few states allow the choice of hanging as well. I’d prefer OD or something even more noble. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/25 "2010-09-19T21:14:34Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > > How so? > > Arteries are the high pressure fluid pipelines of the body; muscular, buried deep, generally surrounded by other things line veins and nerves and muscles and tendons. Getting into one with a catheter is technically more difficult than starting a peripheral IV into a vein just under the skin. > > Veins on the other hand are the lazy rivers with many, many branches off of the main one, all flowing in the same general direction. When talking about lethal injection, isn’t a more important distinction the fact that an artery will carry the poison to only one part of the body, while a vein will carry the poison directly to the heart, and from there it will go everywhere in the body? I’m sure you know much more about the subject than I do. Maybe I’m getting it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/26 "2010-09-19T21:21:07Z")
addendum - actually, I see you addressed my point in post#2. ---
**Author:** ![CTburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a5b964/32.png) [@CTburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTburns)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/27 "2010-09-20T00:55:15Z")
> [@komolono](#): > > > [@bizerta](#): > > > > A guillotine would certainly clinch the deal. > > I’m pretty much against the death penalty. But there are so many possibilities for killing somebody - so why can’t the convicted choose what’s best for them? They still don’t have to commit suicide, which may be against their beliefs/religion, but it may help to keep their dignity. We’re killing them! Is their dignity REALLY important? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/28 "2010-09-20T01:04:09Z")
> [@CTburns](#): > > > [@komolono](#): > > > > I’m pretty much against the death penalty. But there are so many possibilities for killing somebody - so why can’t the convicted choose what’s best for them? They still don’t have to commit suicide, which may be against their beliefs/religion, but it may help to keep their dignity. > > We’re killing them! Is their dignity REALLY important? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/29 "2010-09-20T01:11:18Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > > > Injecting something into an artery is very, very different from injecting something into a vein. > > How so? Arterial blood is at a different PH to veinous blood, many drugs that are given IV will immediately crystalize in an artery… very unpleasant. However if there where no periferal veins to be had it would be fairly simple to cannulate a major vein in the neck such as internal/external jugular. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/30 "2010-09-20T02:09:06Z")
> [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > > > How so? > > Arterial blood is at a different PH to veinous blood, many drugs that are given IV will immediately crystalize in an artery… very unpleasant. However if there where no periferal veins to be had it would be fairly simple to cannulate a major vein in the neck such as internal/external jugular. Paging QtM! Paging QtM! I don’t want to say bullshit since IANAMD, but the blood is just going around in a circle. Why would the pH be different in an artery than a vein?? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/31 "2010-09-20T02:22:49Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > > [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > > > Arterial blood is at a different PH to veinous blood, many drugs that are given IV will immediately crystalize in an artery… very unpleasant. However if there where no periferal veins to be had it would be fairly simple to cannulate a major vein in the neck such as internal/external jugular. > > Paging QtM! Paging QtM! > > I don’t want to say bullshit since IANAMD, but the blood is just going around in a circle. Why would the pH be different in an artery than a vein?? Because arterial blood is loaded with oxygen and lower in CO2, and venous blood is depleted of the former and has more of the latter. This does change blood chemistry in significant ways. Venous blood is less basic. If arterial blood pH is 7.35, the the venous blood is likely around 7.3 or so. Few drugs are designed to be delivered intra-arterially, but I doubt many of them would be all that affected by the pH difference. The whole argument for execution by arterial infusion is rather Rube Goldbergesque anyway. There are many simpler, more effective ways to do someone in. ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/32 "2010-09-20T02:25:24Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > > [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > > > Arterial blood is at a different PH to veinous blood, many drugs that are given IV will immediately crystalize in an artery… very unpleasant. However if there where no periferal veins to be had it would be fairly simple to cannulate a major vein in the neck such as internal/external jugular. > > Paging QtM! Paging QtM! > > I don’t want to say bullshit since IANAMD, but the blood is just going around in a circle. Why would the pH be different in an artery than a vein?? I don’t know what Paging QtM means but I’m guessing it’s an attempt at sarcasm still… (ah…I was wrong) Because arterial blood isn’t carrying all the waste products of metabolism… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/33 "2010-09-20T02:29:36Z")
> [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > I don’t know what Paging QtM means I’m crushed! Crushed, I tell you! 😉 > [@](#): > > Because arterial blood isn’t carrying all the waste products of metabolism… Actually it’s carrying quite a bit of it, specifically to the kidneys and liver, where many such waste products will be removed. Not many waste products, besides CO2, leave the body via the lungs in significant amounts. ---
**Author:** ![shamblesmaybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@shamblesmaybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamblesmaybe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/34 "2010-09-20T02:35:02Z")
Isn’t it the co2 from metabolism that changes the PH? ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/35 "2010-09-20T06:24:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That surprises me, as that would contradict the [oath taken by EMTs](http://www.naemt.org/about_us/emtoath.aspx)… I’m a licensed EMT and I don’t remember seeing that oath in my initial training, it certainly wasn’t covered in any way during my re-cert, and I would be amazed if it were in any way legally binding even if I did sign or otherwise acknowledge it during my initial training. Actually, having just read the oath, I am sure I never signed it. I would have outright refused to sign any document that forced me to (implicitly at least) accept the existence of God. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023/36 "2010-09-20T12:30:50Z")
> [@shamblesmaybe](#): > > Isn’t it the co2 from metabolism that changes the PH? Yes, it is. Regardless of this, arterial blood carries lots of other waste products, and only somewhat less CO2 than venous blood does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lethal-injection-always-iv/554023.md?page=1)